Rune translator
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Futhark/Futhorc runes are indeed fascinating. It's a shame they are quite misrepresented by our modern society.
Well, as historical devices go they are some of the better ones in terms of accuracy and portrayal of course and we have plenty of information on them communicatively/linguistically. It's just the usual deviations I mean, those situations in which people are using or combining them with other completely non related symbols and are trying for divination or some magic purpose in a way that's not so accurate. Syncretic, is the word I want to use, I guess. That's what I've seen anyway.
What a contribution, a finely crafted argument rik,
THOaken is quite right runes had a use and are useful to us in attempting to understand the world when they were made but modern accretions of mysticism are a waste of space.
Why, for example, would you inscribe futhorc on a seax blade except it was in an era when literacy was known but regarded as a special skill, even sonehow a protective one, much the same as the ABRACADABRA magic squares against the plague.
THOaken is quite right runes had a use and are useful to us in attempting to understand the world when they were made but modern accretions of mysticism are a waste of space.
Why, for example, would you inscribe futhorc on a seax blade except it was in an era when literacy was known but regarded as a special skill, even sonehow a protective one, much the same as the ABRACADABRA magic squares against the plague.
I know what I'm engraving on my first hand forged blade now, lol.
Well off track now, just thought Id share the observation....will think better of it next time
Oh, sorry. I thought the intended purpose of the thread was to talk about runes because I read your observation that they quite resemble our alphabet. I was just giving my thoughts on runes.
Edwin, I agree with you.
Edit: And yes, they do somewhat resemble our alphabet and that is a neat translator. Just for further clarification, I thought you wanted this to be a general runes discussion thread.
On the whole a thread that widens out into a discussion, that even in some tenuous way is relevant to the opening post, is considered a good thing in Other Chatter.
Chill out please Gentlemen. We've got a spammer irritating the living daylights out of me, I don't need any more fuss tonight while I root him out and (figuratively speaking kick his backside.
Toddy
Chill out please Gentlemen. We've got a spammer irritating the living daylights out of me, I don't need any more fuss tonight while I root him out and (figuratively speaking
kick his backside.Toddy
It is possible that runes are derivative of the alphabet being adapted to being written with straight strokes.
Ogham is supposed to be as it is because it is the concept of writing translated into the medium of inscribing memorial stones on their edge with a line representing the edge when written on parchment. Get an idea with this Ogham translator.
http://nuacht1.com/ogham
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ogham.htm
Ogham is supposed to be as it is because it is the concept of writing translated into the medium of inscribing memorial stones on their edge with a line representing the edge when written on parchment. Get an idea with this Ogham translator.
http://nuacht1.com/ogham
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ogham.htm
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Ogham is fascinating. There are a few Ogham tablets in the National Museum of Scotland.
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In my part of the world we have what might be considered the "Rosetta Stone of Ogham" where there are Ogham inscriptions on stones with Latin text.
Some are still in situ
Some are still in situ
Evidence that Odin was older? A hanging stone as part of a circular earthwork or henge has nothing to do with suspending someone from a rope. Usage of hanging as in poised. Yggdrasil was the "World Tree" and only known as Odin's Horse because he rode it figuratively as in while hanging from it. His horse was Sleipnir.
The idea of "riding" a gallows was applied in England in the eighteenth century as a parallel example.
The idea of "riding" a gallows was applied in England in the eighteenth century as a parallel example.
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Something I wrote a while ago about runes on one of my sites:
There are literally hundreds of books about Runes and hundreds more that have a section dealing with the subject. Why do we need more information?
Regrettably I can count on less than ten fingers the ones I have read that convey any real understanding of them.
Why the confusion? The problem is that the Runic script (for want of a better name) was in use for over a thousand years and during this time it evolved and changed with the languages of the people that used it.
There are basically three types of book out there that examine the runes.
1. Academic studies, these books have most of the information in the right order but can be heavy reading unless you have an interest in the subject.
2. General books about the Vikings and Saxons, these often distil some of the information from the academic studies but often over simplify.
3. New Age almanacs, books about magic and divination with the runes, I have no problem with divination and such beliefs but I do wish the authors of these books would leave history out of it.
Lets deal with the magic side of things first. In the Havamal there is a reference to Odin learning the runes and performing magic with them and in Egils Saga the hero is described performing a charm using runes. There is also a reference from Tacitus that mentions notae marked on sticks being used by the Germani for divination, these could be runes or they could be any other kind of mark used for identification.
There is however no continuous tradition surviving that passes such arcane knowledge down to us today. All the books I have seen that say they have such information are making it up from some early learning poems designed to teach the pronunciation of the rune sounds.
In a superstitious world there is little doubt that runes would have been used in the performance of magic and charms but the same can equally be said of Latin, Greek and a host of other scripts too numerous to mention.
A rune is no more magical in its self than the letters on this screen. Now, you might think these letters are pretty magical and I wouldnt necessarily disagree, isnt technology marvellous, but there lies the point.
The ability to write in a largely illiterate society must have seemed magical and when the runes first started to be used that is how they may have appeared.
As far as we can tell the runes were first used around 200CE and took the form of what is now called the Elder Futhark of 24 runes.
It is important to understand that each rune represents a sound and for convenience we usually represent that sound with a Latin letter. We arrange our letters in an order that we call the alphabet named after the first two Greek letters, Alpha and Beta. In the same way there seems to be a traditional order that the Runes were placed in and we call that the Futhark or later the Futhork after the first 6 sounds of this order.
The quick thinking among you may have noticed I just wrote 6 sounds but Futhork is 7 letters, that is because th represents the sound of just one rune.
The people using the runes in the second century were the people the Roman, Tacitus referred to as Germani. These are the common ancestors of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings and Normans. In 200 CE they all spoke a language that was similar but the dialects were very different across the region.
As time progressed these dialects became more pronounced and with the separation of the Anglo-Saxons in England and the Northern peoples who would become the Vikings the languages become quite separate in sound.
With these different sounding languages it is not surprising that the use of the runes changed as well. The Anglo-Saxon tongue developed towards the language we now call English with its wide variations of the way we pronounce our vowels. The Anglo-Saxon Futhorc had many extra vowel sounds added to accommodate this change creating a set of 31 runes but it can still be seen to have derived from the same source.
In Northern Europe the language changed in other ways and certain runes fell out of regular use until there were just 16 runes remaining.
The runes used by the Vikings is this later or Younger Futhork which remained in use with variations in some regions through out the Middle Ages and into Early Modern times.
Runes were a simple script designed for the simplest of tools and materials. At a time when virtually everyone carried a knife the only other thing you needed was a piece of wood.
Each rune is carved with a combination of vertical and angled strokes, never horizontal. The reason for this comes from their origin being scratched on wood. If you take a stick and shave along its length to make a flat surface with a knife, you reveal a pattern of lines or grain running up the stick. By carving your runes across and at an angle to the stick none of the lines you cut can be confused with the grain of the stick.
If you need a quick note or marker to say something like Snorri owns this bag of wheat, then this is ideal. Just cut your stick, shave it, carve it and poke it into the bag or tie it on. what could be easier?
However, if you want to write something long like The Lord of the Rings then you are going to need a small forest and a fleet of ships to take it anywhere.
Runes were not the best option for writing in quantity. To make a book you need vellum or later paper and the things needed to write on these were best suited to curved flowing lines such as we have in our modern letters.
The cost of these writing materials though and the churchs virtual monopoly on Latin, the language used in most books of the time meant that for most common people runes remained a practical script for centuries.
Runes were also used on stone monuments meant to be seen by these common people so it is likely that there was a sizeable population able to read and write at the time.
Possibly one reason so few runic inscriptions are found today is not just the fact that wood does not survive well in the earth, but the simple fact that a stick with an inscription on it that you have read is now just a useful bit of firewood.
There are literally hundreds of books about Runes and hundreds more that have a section dealing with the subject. Why do we need more information?
Regrettably I can count on less than ten fingers the ones I have read that convey any real understanding of them.
Why the confusion? The problem is that the Runic script (for want of a better name) was in use for over a thousand years and during this time it evolved and changed with the languages of the people that used it.
There are basically three types of book out there that examine the runes.
1. Academic studies, these books have most of the information in the right order but can be heavy reading unless you have an interest in the subject.
2. General books about the Vikings and Saxons, these often distil some of the information from the academic studies but often over simplify.
3. New Age almanacs, books about magic and divination with the runes, I have no problem with divination and such beliefs but I do wish the authors of these books would leave history out of it.
Lets deal with the magic side of things first. In the Havamal there is a reference to Odin learning the runes and performing magic with them and in Egils Saga the hero is described performing a charm using runes. There is also a reference from Tacitus that mentions notae marked on sticks being used by the Germani for divination, these could be runes or they could be any other kind of mark used for identification.
There is however no continuous tradition surviving that passes such arcane knowledge down to us today. All the books I have seen that say they have such information are making it up from some early learning poems designed to teach the pronunciation of the rune sounds.
In a superstitious world there is little doubt that runes would have been used in the performance of magic and charms but the same can equally be said of Latin, Greek and a host of other scripts too numerous to mention.
A rune is no more magical in its self than the letters on this screen. Now, you might think these letters are pretty magical and I wouldnt necessarily disagree, isnt technology marvellous, but there lies the point.
The ability to write in a largely illiterate society must have seemed magical and when the runes first started to be used that is how they may have appeared.
As far as we can tell the runes were first used around 200CE and took the form of what is now called the Elder Futhark of 24 runes.
It is important to understand that each rune represents a sound and for convenience we usually represent that sound with a Latin letter. We arrange our letters in an order that we call the alphabet named after the first two Greek letters, Alpha and Beta. In the same way there seems to be a traditional order that the Runes were placed in and we call that the Futhark or later the Futhork after the first 6 sounds of this order.
The quick thinking among you may have noticed I just wrote 6 sounds but Futhork is 7 letters, that is because th represents the sound of just one rune.
The people using the runes in the second century were the people the Roman, Tacitus referred to as Germani. These are the common ancestors of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings and Normans. In 200 CE they all spoke a language that was similar but the dialects were very different across the region.
As time progressed these dialects became more pronounced and with the separation of the Anglo-Saxons in England and the Northern peoples who would become the Vikings the languages become quite separate in sound.
With these different sounding languages it is not surprising that the use of the runes changed as well. The Anglo-Saxon tongue developed towards the language we now call English with its wide variations of the way we pronounce our vowels. The Anglo-Saxon Futhorc had many extra vowel sounds added to accommodate this change creating a set of 31 runes but it can still be seen to have derived from the same source.
In Northern Europe the language changed in other ways and certain runes fell out of regular use until there were just 16 runes remaining.
The runes used by the Vikings is this later or Younger Futhork which remained in use with variations in some regions through out the Middle Ages and into Early Modern times.
Runes were a simple script designed for the simplest of tools and materials. At a time when virtually everyone carried a knife the only other thing you needed was a piece of wood.
Each rune is carved with a combination of vertical and angled strokes, never horizontal. The reason for this comes from their origin being scratched on wood. If you take a stick and shave along its length to make a flat surface with a knife, you reveal a pattern of lines or grain running up the stick. By carving your runes across and at an angle to the stick none of the lines you cut can be confused with the grain of the stick.
If you need a quick note or marker to say something like Snorri owns this bag of wheat, then this is ideal. Just cut your stick, shave it, carve it and poke it into the bag or tie it on. what could be easier?
However, if you want to write something long like The Lord of the Rings then you are going to need a small forest and a fleet of ships to take it anywhere.
Runes were not the best option for writing in quantity. To make a book you need vellum or later paper and the things needed to write on these were best suited to curved flowing lines such as we have in our modern letters.
The cost of these writing materials though and the churchs virtual monopoly on Latin, the language used in most books of the time meant that for most common people runes remained a practical script for centuries.
Runes were also used on stone monuments meant to be seen by these common people so it is likely that there was a sizeable population able to read and write at the time.
Possibly one reason so few runic inscriptions are found today is not just the fact that wood does not survive well in the earth, but the simple fact that a stick with an inscription on it that you have read is now just a useful bit of firewood.
Actually Yggdrasil translates more accurately as "the terrible ones horse" but "Yggr" is also listed as one of Odins other names.
May you all be touched by his noodly appendage. The FSM is entirely original. Not like these other derivative fairy stories.
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