Retail and the Curriculum of Bushcraft

Atellus

Member
Jul 15, 2007
45
1
Warrington, Cheshire
I considered setting up a poll for this question, but there doesn't seem to be the facility, so will have to judge the results from replies instead.

There are a lot of bushcraft schools around, it seems. To support this many schools, there must be plenty of takers (and plenty wealthy ones, too, judging by some of the prices!). Yet in the beginning - which means pretty much any time prior to the popularisation of bushcraft by TV personalities like Ray Mears and Les Hiddins - it seems that you learnt it from books (like Brian Hildreth's 'How to Survive' discussed elsewhere) and/or acquired it as you went along from hard experience and the sage advice of "elders".

It seems a general rule in the modern, retail-oriented age that all popular pursuits become gradually more formalised and standardised, and have legislation and other forms of rigour applied to them, with the result that the body of knowledge expands from just a few hundred or few thousand dedicated practitioners, to hundreds of thousands of casual students. That cadre of dedicated practitioners seeds the new generation of qualified instructors (whose qualifications comply with legislation and who are trained to deliver bushcraft according to a syllabus) who then teach the rest of us.

There is, however, a down-side to this standardisation. Any time that you develop a curriculum and lay down regulations and criteria, you will inevitably and unavoidably exclude certain pieces of knowledge from the finished product.

For example, I study Kung Fu. For most of its history, Kung Fu skills have been passed down through families or tribes and the secrets jealously guarded. This resulted in a complex, fascinating, over-lapping mess of different styles. A style is just a different approach to solving the same problem; how to do unto the other guy first!

But if you tried to rationalise all of it down into one linear curriculum through which you could take a student from novice to expert, you would have to ignore or disregard huge quantities of otherwise interesting and potentially valuable material, simply because a lot of it would contradict itself. This is because to train in all these different solutions to the same problem would be confusing and sometimes counter-productive, not to mention time-consuming!

We can be pretty certain of this because someone once tried to do just that! The Chinese Communist party. The result was what is known as Modern Wushu, which can perhaps best be described as aggressive gymnastics and bears little more resemblance to functional, combat-oriented Kung Fu than Frank Sinatra's tap dancing does to Muhammed Ali's boxing.

So, as the various arts and crafts that comprise bushcraft become absorbed into a cohesive whole and this new lexicon is fed to the thousands of new students that attend bushcraft schools every year, is the craft itself in danger of losing something in the re-telling?

This raises the following question: given the choice, would you take the solitary, dedicated route of self-discovery, leaving yourself open to serendipity (the discovery, or re-discovery, of solutions to old problems) or would you go down the increasingly commercialised, standardised route?

When you were starting out, learning your first basic skills in bushcraft (or survival, as it may have been known at the time), did you ever part with money to learn and improve your skills under the tutelage of a more experienced or qualified practitioner and did this bias the result?

How far did you get on your own before you paid someone else to show you how to go farther?

Did you ever pay?
 

sapper1

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 3, 2008
2,572
1
swansea
I've never paid cash to learn a woodland skill,although I have traded my knowledge for someone elses.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
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S. Lanarkshire
I think you're missing something.
There's never only one way to do something.
Half the fun is learning different ways, techniques, methods, materials. It's about diversity, of season, of habitat, of resources, of ability.
It's a fluid, constantly widening accumulation of knowledge for each one of us.

To go on a course, even if it may be kind of 'standardised',( and frankly I don't think they are, there are just too many different instructors from so many different backgrounds involved, )there will always be something that you won't have done, seen, tried, whatever.

There's no one 'correct' way to learn bushcraft either. Self taught, family tutored, Schools, Army, Scouts, Craftsmen......they're all relevant and all equally valid.

cheers,
Toddy

p.s. Good point Sapper 1 :approve:
 

smoggy

Forager
Mar 24, 2009
244
0
North East England
I've never paid for any craft tuition............but as sapper1 states, I've learn from others and reciprocated........I also think Toddy is correct, although I see were you're coming from but I don't actually think it has or indead will evolve into a rigid curriculum.....yes maybe a certain course may limit aspects out of time or other restrictions, but equally others will address other aspects.

Smoggy.
 

Atellus

Member
Jul 15, 2007
45
1
Warrington, Cheshire
p.s.I think you're missing something.
There's never only one way to do something.
Half the fun is learning different ways, techniques, methods, materials. It's about diversity, of season, of habitat, of resources, of ability.
It's a fluid, constantly widening accumulation of knowledge for each one of us.
:

Sorry, but I think you may have missed the point, instead. I tried to illustrate the fact that I know there is never just one way to do something. The problem is that discarding all the alternative methods and settling on one or two standard methods is fundamental to the construction of any syllabus in any subject.

The first question is whether it is, in the end, wise and ultimately beneficial to do this for Bushcraft given that standardisation will ease access to a greater number of new students, but will do so at the price of diversity within the art.

The second question is whether there are skills in bushcraft that you need to pay to acquire: whether there is a certain level of proficiency beyond which you can't go (a glass ceiling, or more appropriately, a tree canopy) without hiring a personal trainer.

Cheers,
Mike
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
4,810
S. Lanarkshire
No, I think you are missing the point.
There will not, can not, ever be a straight line curriculum in bushcraft.
There will never be that strict a set of defining guidelines.

Toddy
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,133
4,810
S. Lanarkshire
Why would standardisation ease the access for newbies ?
It's not like abc, it's life skills augmenting an enjoyment of knowledge of the natural world and that's literally on every bio zone on Earth.

The only glass ceiling is the pearly gates........we just keep going til it stops :D

Would I pay to go on courses ? Yes.
Do I feel I need to attend courses to participate in this pursuit called bushcraft ? No.
Do I believe that courses are a good way to learn ? Yes.
But so is time spent with other people, books, forums, videos, travel. Best of all is just getting out there and doing it.

Toddy
 

smoggy

Forager
Mar 24, 2009
244
0
North East England
"discarding all the alternative methods and settling on one or two standard methods is fundamental to the construction of any syllabus in any subject."

I have to disagree with you Mike, this does not need to be the case at all......

for instance........part of the curriculum could cover "lighting a fire with the use a fire stick" or "lighting a fire without recourse to modern methods, ie matches or lighter and without the use of comercial accelerants".

The second does not exlude the methods that the first does, and from experience of curriculums, the later, broader description is the norm, and often includes a number of methods rather than one........of course these things all depend on who is setting the curriculum, and where subjects like literacy and numeracy have evolved over decades, new curriculum will however inevitable contain "holes" due to the fact that the people who know the subject are not experts in curriculi and those who are experts in curriculi are novices at the new subject......writing new curiculi, is often an on going precess and amendments are usually instigated by those who deliver the courses.


Smoggy
 

johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
No, I think you are missing the point.
There will not, can not, ever be a straight line curriculum in bushcraft.
There will never be that strict a set of defining guidelines.

Toddy

I think what's trying to be said is that Post Modern Bushcraft is in a relatively early developmental stage. If it continues to expand into the general populus at its current rate than there will at some point be a need for standardization as a curicclum is set for the delivery of a syllabus that is 'the norm'. It's starting to happen already with Woodcraft developing an instructor course etc etc... The same has been true of climbing. mountaineering, canoeing etc.

Cheers

John
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,888
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Mercia
As a person who has been on very few formal Bushcraft related courses, I can that I am convinced there is a huge value in learning a skill from someone hugely experienced.

I could have read books till my eyes bled, but no way could I have picked up flint knapping as well as a day spent with John Lord. I'm sure I could teach myself to stumble by, but being corrected by someone who really knows their stuff saves a huge amount of time and frustration.

A walk with JonnyP really opened my eyes to in depth plant knowledge - he could show me stuff on real plants that I coud never glean from a book.

Now I'm not against book learning or self discovery, heck I've written about and photographed dozens of my projects. And others have critiqued what I've written, offered their own ways of doing things, refined what I wrote etc.

Take a look at "The £5 sharpening kit" and see how many people chimed in with much better approaches than my feeble attempts.

Have a search on bow drills and see how many "willow on lime" type combinations there are for spindle and hearth.

Even primitive people shared knowledge and exchanged ideas, a course is a way of gaining an eductaion form "an elder". No-one says you can only gain from one, or that you shouldn't try your own ways. But in "getting going" some basic instructiona and correction is advantageous.

I think your entire premis is wrong though. Bushcraft is not a competition sport. There are no winners and losers, no points, no scores. Its a bit more like cooking. Theres dozens of books, enthusiasts, courses etc. But no real "first place" the enjoyment is the key, and there is always room for new and different ideas.

The nice thing with Bushcraft as opposed to Kung Fu is no-one is trying to come out on top!

Red
 

Sniper

Native
Aug 3, 2008
1,431
0
Saltcoats, Ayrshire
I think there is some merit in a "newbie" attending a basic survival style course, just to learn the basic core of bushcraft. That course could well be a standardised content such as shelter building, fire, simple navigation, some basic hunting / tracking techniques, water location and purification, and some basic food prep and cooking.
However from this point on, bushcraft envelopes such a wide and varied plethora of skills and techniques that it would be impossible in my opinion to cover on any course short of a 10 year apprenticeship, even then someone would be able to teach you a new skill or some new fact that you never learned. Even the great men of bushcraft/survival, Mearsy, Hiddins, Wiseman, Korchanski, Falt etc etc will happily tell you they can learn something everyday until you die and you will still only know some of what's out there to learn.
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
1,755
1
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Good point, but you're missing out on something.
There is a third option.
Maybe people can learn by a combination of the two?

I have never been on any kind of bushcraft course. And probably never will. There are two main reasons for this - firstly, cost (I'm not willing to pay that amount for a single day, or even two. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they represent good value for money when taking into account the organiser's overheads. But I can't justify it to myself). Secondly, I like to do things at my own agenda and at my own pace.
All the things I have learnt, I have learnt for myself. Well, not quite true. Watching Ray and others has given me ideas and has informed my approach to tasks.
I have never read any bushcraft books. That, for me, is the most dumbfounding aspect of the whole activity. Bushcraft (like sport), for me, is a physical activity - it's something you do rather than read about or watch.
So I learn by doing it. For myself.

But each to their own. If you want to learn from some sage-like elder, then good for you. If a course is the only way you can be sure, then go for it. If reading a book is the way get what you want, then that's just fine.
But I don't see how anyone needs to be restricted to one or the other. The other option is by a combination. If that's what you like.
 

Gaoler

Tenderfoot
Jun 22, 2009
68
0
Notts
Hi all.
I have alot of knowledge gleened over the years from books,cubs and scouts and learned the hard way by experience.
The thought of going on specific courses for what subject has my attention at any given time appeals but I am limited, like most of us, by funds.

The only effective way to learn these skills is by experiencing each facet and mastering that before moving on to the next little gem of knowledge.
Learning this way takes time hence the birth of the old fashioned apprenticeship.
As there are so many different environments and many experts in each one, the reservoir of knowledge out there is stagering.
As greater men than I have said its a lifetime study.

For this reason I think that bushcraft schools and a formalised structure may suit some people but it's not for me. I enjoy experimenting to much. Small specific courses is the way forward.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
53
Glasgow, Scotland
Hmmm...

Problem is, if you only learn from, say, one other experienced person, you are effectively learning their 'syllabus'. Ideally, you would need to progress between different experienced people as your own knowledge progresses in order to see alternative ways of doing things. Frankly, even if you haven't done a course, if you have been shown things by someone else, you are learning from their curriculum, like it or not. The same issue arises when learning from books - you learn from the author's curriculum, unless you can mix and match, trying out different ideas before you settle on a favourite.

There is also an issue that, without a curriculum, you will have too much to learn! A curriculum should take key skills from a wide area of subject matter and teach them in a structured manner. We know you cannot compress all knowledge into a single course; the idea is to teach some basics and encourage the student to be more inquisitive in order to learn more in the future. Continual Professional Development adds to the skills base, along with own experience. Eventually, the student becomes the teacher and the cycle begins again (Grasshopper...).

I have been working on a large project to combine a number of technical schools into one single college so I know a bit about course development, etc. Providing a course is designed properly, it should enthuse the student to continue learning that subject beyond the initial curriculum. This is frequently the case in bushcraft: someone who is not sure if they will like it goes on a weekend or week long course, finds they enjoy it, and then has the basic skills and the confidence to continue learning by themselves or with friends, developing their own style and technique as they go along.

So, you may think there will never be an agreed bushcraft curriculum because the subject is too wide; however, if you look at the basic skills discussed on this forum (from friction firelighting to bl**dy spoon carving), you'll see a definite pattern - a statistical analysis would show that the majority of posts are about a small number of skill areas (almost a Normal Distribution, I bet!). Note also that all bushcraft schools teach very much the same basic subject areas on their courses.

Therefore, do we effectively already have a bushcraft curriculum?

Discuss. Heh-heh. :D
 

johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
Therefore, do we effectively already have a bushcraft curriculum?

Possibly... if so is this the text book??

51B18EYG7PL._SL500_AA240_.jpg


Discuss also....
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
24,326
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Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
I regularly talk to people that thought they wouldn't learn anything from a course and ended up learning a load of stuff, I think that the courses have just replaced the old system of sharing your knowledge with the family or pupil that had an interest in what you were willing to share. Much of bushcraft was second nature to people that lived outdoors most of their lives, it becomes a separate act for us because we don't, we don't have a ready source of information in the guise of grandads that knew it all, or the hermit that lives in a dank old cottage but she knows it all as well. Many of the people that have taken their place charge for spending time with them and call themselves schools, most of them to get the level of skill they have have studied with the likes of Ray, ask about and see how many of the instructors went through Woodlore, they paid for their knowledge to be of a high standard.

You don't have to go and pay for it if you have resources in books and people that will give you enough but i'd say that books aren't enough on their own, some things need to be passed from one to another personally, it can save yeras of work and effort, I encourage people to go and do a course or two and then re-evaluate, for years now i've pointed them to the schools in their area that i think are good at passing on skills, or i've referred them to people / schools that are good in a particular area. It's no different from martial arts, you need to see if you get on with the instructor, if you like his teaching style, do you like the techniques being taught etc etc. The forums are excellent for this sort of pre vetting.

If you go to Lancashire a traditional pie might well be made differently than in say Dorset, a chair might be constructed using different techniques, it would still have 4 legs etc but the tenons might be different, the back a different shape. I think that if there is ever a set curriculum for bushcraft it would be damaging, there's a vast difference between most bushcrafters being able to make fire and them all having to make fire the same way. There's movement at the moment to create that control and I don't think it's in the interest of bushcraft as a whole but rather the individuals wanting to control it for financial gain and status.

If there's someone that can share good knowledge and skills then take advantage of that, if people can't afford to then that's how it is, if they're not inclined then that's up to them. Bushcraft for me is anything that helps me be more competent and comfortable in my environment, it's not just rubbing sticks together, there's so much to learn that I personally feel i could do with all the help i can get, I'd shy away from a dictated curriculum though and those that create such a thing. There's plenty of people that will share good quality knowledge for nothing other than companionship around the fire, there's Meet and Moot and friends that will all contribute, I'd say don't limit the options with preconceived ideas but take advantage of all the opportunities to learn.
 
i have attended some courses and will be attending some more,i have also self taught through the "text book" shown in johnboy's post,assorted other books, watching tv shows and dvd's and reading this forum and other websites on the world wide web,
one of the reasons i attend courses is that it offers me the oppourtunity to do things that in sunny bedfordshire would be frowned upon and get me in some level of trouble,
for example on one course i attended we constructed a lean too shelter from pine trees and i know for a fact felling trees in my local woods would definately get me in grief and spoil the woods for other people who enjoy them, not to mention any other potential bushcrafty types in the area would get a bad name if one of us(i think there is more than just me) goes about chopping down trees for a natural shelter.
another benefit for me in attending courses is that i can get specific things explained to me eg when i was trying to do fire by bowdrill i could not get the ruddy thing to start when in my back garden, whilst on a course i mentioned this and one of the instructors watched me attempt it before making suggestions on my technique which resulted in my first success! something i would not of been able to have worked out on my own or watching mr mears on a dvd.
i am also somewhat limited in that i am the only bushcrafty type in my town/local area so i cannot meet others to get their assistance/advice
as for there being a syllabus for bushcraft i think that whilst certain areas will be similar or standardised no matter how we learn them ie fire lighting methods, water purification, knots, the scale of bushcraft implies there will not be a defined syllabus, human nature will almost certainly ensure this too, just looking at this forum shows the diversity of this topic/subject/activity/hobby, there are reenactors,gear freaks,primative skills practicioners,homesteaders, light weight campers, just a knife and a billy can purists and even (whisper it) survivalists all of whom have different approaches to the catch all umbrella term BUSHCRAFT so a standardised syllabus would not offer everything that any one individual wants thus causing a certain amount of self teaching to go on.
although i do agree with mickey p that there is a lot of very similar topics posted on here this is i think caused by the fact that we as humans all need the same things shelter water food warmth clothing.

so thats my ramblings (and also my longest post ever) hopefully it will make some sort of sense its been a long day already adn its only gone 9 :)
cheers
Sam
 

BOD

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Courses are useful for a leg up as Tony says (or at least what I think he is saying) to a basic level. from there you can take it further by your own efforts.

When first exposed to the traps made by natives I felt so inadequate and I knew I could not even begin to make them since I did not have the fundamentals, woodcraft skills nor know the qualities of various woods and natural lashings, location for the traps.

Then I learnt some basic traps from Woody which I could do with the help of artificial stuff like paracord.

Later with that basis I was able to understand native traps and triggers.

I learnt the basics of fire by friction from three different instructors. My style is different from all three. I need not adhere to what Mors says about the subject because I know that my way works as well as his at least in my environment. I know what I can get to work (most of the time)

I could not have got there with out the leg up from those three instructors all of whom also had different styles.
 

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