Questions about using and maintaining a Damascus knife

[MarkinLondon]

I've owned a few custom knives in my life and I believe in one simple rule: use them; they're good tough knives. I can always sharpen and polish them, and they always look and perform great. But Damascus has me puzzled.

I'm finally considering a Damascus knife, but have no idea what they look like once they're used. As I understand it, the pattern emerges when it's etched chemically, and is limited to the surface, so is it safe to assume that it polishes off when stropped or polished, much in the same way a Sharpie marker is? A scandi Damascus would then have a shiny bevel to contrast the blade's flat body. But after a trip, if I used Autosol to clean the entire blade, would the paste polish out the body too?

I'd love to see pictures of used Damascus knives and read tips on how to maintain it. If I'm going to get one, I'd like to know what I'm in for down the road.

Thanks in advance.
Mark

 

[Dave Budd]

depends on the type of steel, how it was etched and how you like it to look.

If its stainless damascus, then treat as any other stainless steel and the pattern will stay assuming you don't abrade the surface with polish

If its proper pattern welded steel made from non-stainless steels, then it will rust, patinate and otherwise change colour. If you dry it after use and oil then it will develop a patina and rather than being silver and black will be dull silver and dark brown. If the etch is deep (so you can feel it with your nails) then the contrast will persevere better and if you were to polish out some light tarnish, then you will still see the patter but it will be more subtle.If the etch is shallow then your polishing will erase the contrast, in which case either leave it to patinate naturally (again browns and silvery greys) or re-etch yourself

Basically treat it as any other carbon steel blade and wash then dry it when finished and don't go polishing it. If you want shiny, get a stainless steel blade!

 

[MarkinLondon]

Dave, I'm going on the ignorant assumption that historically, Damascus steel was superior to its contemporaries precisely because the benefits of two steels would present in the same blade, but that modern steels make these forgings unnecessary. Though I'm sure that forging patterns from modern steels may offer similar benefits, my uninformed sense is that Damascus' benefits are visual. They are stunning blades that represent a great deal of artistry and difficult bladesmanship. I appreciate that and would enjoy owning one. But I'd also like to enjoy looking at it, and I'm not sure that its beauty holds up once the blade becomes used (as all good knives should be.) That's why I'm asking everyone for photos. I simply never see them used. Everyone posts images of unused knives, which of course look great. I want to see one with some life on it. Consider my approach to my O1 blades: I use them and then return home, where I clean, polish and strop them. What would a Damascus look like after a few months of that treatment?

 

[TurboGirl]

Surely the pattern welded 'damascusalike's pattern runs all the way through the billet? So the pattern revealed by any stock removal (inc polishing) will still leave the pattern although not in as good definition as the engraved section??

I'll follow with interest as I have a billet to use sometime and would like to design to use the patterning... I bet the ladderback pattern would look great suing the grind to bring out differences in the depth etc...

 

[Dave Budd]

I think we should drop the word 'damascus', since it is confusing the issue. True Damascus is actually Wootz, a crucible steel that exhibits a dendrictic structure, appearing at the surface like ice crystals. What we are talking about is pattern welded steel, ie a pattern derived from laminating two or more types of iron or steel. These terms apply to historical patterned blades as well as modern ones.

Pattern welded blades are not and never have been superior to a single good bit of steel. By combining a high carbon piece with a low carbon piece you end up with a medium carbon steel, simple diffusion of carbon. The only reason that you get a toothy edge or any other properties exhibited is if you choose particular steels for your mix, such as a high nickel steel that wears at a different rate to a high chromium steel, or a piece of wrought iron and a piece of phosphoric iron, etc.

In terms of modern pattern welded blades, we choose two similar steels (so they work under the hammer well and have similar heat treating needs), but have a contrasting element to give the pattern. Normally something like 15n20 and EN42 (or 1080, etc): so two similar high carbon steels with no tricky alloying elements; except that the 15n20 has nickel to resist the acid and give contrast.

The pattern is throughout the blade and as mentioned will remain at the surface but in a more muted form if you polish it.

I'll take a picture of my edc pocket knife tomorrow. Its pattern welded steel and has been in my pocket for over a year and a half now. I don't care for my knives, they get wiped on a trouser leg if they get something on them and then shoved back in my pocket.

 

[TurboGirl]

So the modern patternwelded billets have a very similar wear pattern being matched in metal properties and its just interesting pattern that you get from adjusting your grind/ depth etc? Looking forward to seeing your 'knife with charecter' tomorrow

 

[Shinken]

If your going to be using your knife then i'd just get one with normal steel. If you want a knife to look at then consider a pattern welded one. Well that my opinion anyhow.

 

[Dave Budd]

As long as its well made, it doesn't matter whether you go for pattern welded or plain steel. I all comes down to aesthetics.

Here is my edc, with the pocket lint brushed off but the tarnish left in place It's called character and is something developed by use

 

[TurboGirl]

That's lovely Dave, the patina doesn't detract at all and the markings still show up beautifully 18months of pretty heavy use, I should think.... be interesting to see older ones too

 

[Dave Budd]

it mostly lives in my pocket (along with loose change, fluff and anything that is stuck to my hand during a day's work when it goes in to my pocket!). I use it for opening boxes, sharpening pencils, opening bags of coke (forge fuel, not white powder!), any anything else that needs cutting when in 'civilisation'.

 

[MarkinLondon]

Dave,

Thanks for your explanations and examples. They confirmed what I suspected: that pattern-welded steel might not age with use in a manner I find appealing. I'm the type of knife owner that uses his knives, and spends the time between each outing by restoring it. Whether or not that's anyone else's approach is not my concern. This is my approach and it doesn't sit well with pattern-welded steel.

Make no mistake, I enjoy used gear. Much of my gear enjoys signs of life and hard use. That doesn't mean that I don't clean or maintain it -- I do -- but now I have a better idea of how a pattern-welded knife would respond, and I can use that new outlook when I consider a new purchase. Thanks again.

m