Question to all Bowyers....

[spamel]

..Today, The Ratbag and my younger brother accompanied me on a walk in some woodland to gather some wood for possible bow making in the future. We sourced a good sized straight as an arrow piece of ash and split it in half. Due to lack of time, we didn't quarter them, but intend to do so during the week.

So, the first questions are, how long should it be seasoned and does it need to be lashed to a straight piece to stop warping and twisting? Also, when we do start the job of shaping and tillering the bow, will there be anybody interested in the process and anyone who could coach us along as we work the wood? Neither of us have done this before, but we intend to rival the other DIY duo of BcUK, Stovie and Wellsey, in making a good set of ash bows!

As I said before, we have enough for four good staves, so I was considering (if the first one comes out OK) making one of the staves into two shorter staves and making a pair of bows for the kids. The staves are probably closer to 7 foot, although I haven't measured them. They are currently in The Ratbags' garage as far as I am aware, awaiting quartering.

 

[jojo]

Well, i don't know how big your wood is, but a bit of 4" x4" can take up to a year to dry! Do you want to wait that long? And will be much harder to work than if you work it green.

I would split the log ASAP, and rough tiller the staves.

Quote form the bowyers bible:

Wood can be taken from green tree to a perfectly cured, durable, hard shooting bow in less than a week..
To quick cure a stave:
Fell, split, and debark the tree
Reduce the stave to just over finished bow width
Leave the stave full width for its entire length, including tips and grip
Begin tillering as if you intend finish the bow green, leave the tips and grip full width for now. This prevents the otherwise narrow grip and tips from warping as they dry.
Let sides be square, and belly flat, uniform dimensions promote uniform drying.
If making a 50lbs bow, proceed until the properly tillered blank will bend about 8 inches while pushing against the grip with about 50lbs force. This is not enough strain to impart permanent set, but is enough to insure the stave is a thin as it can be. the stave can now dry in the shortest possible time.

A moderate room temp of 70 degrees (F) and 50% relative humidity, will see the blank dry in about 2 weeks.
!00 degrees, 40% humidity cut drying time to about a week.
A flow of air speeds drying in any temp and humidity. For uniform drying , all parts of the stave should be exposed to a uniform flow of air.

If small amount of warp begins , tie or clamp the blank to proper position.

I hope this helps!

 

[Robbo]

Spamel. did you seal the ends of the staves (i use either pva glue or melted wax and on occasion plastic bags hel on with elastic bands) It stops the ends drying out quicker than the rest and prevents splitting where you dont want it.

Have a look at paleoplanets archery section

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/forums/60

And if you can, get hold of the bowyers bible books, but if not paleoplanet and the more techinically profficent bow makers here will help with advice.

If its still dripping wet it is possible to induce some back set whilst drying, tie your stave to a board with the future' back' of the bow (the side of the bow that will face your target ) against the board, but put a block between the centre of it and the board so your bending it the opposite way to which it will be drawn, a couple of inches should do, when the stave is dry it will hopefully have some back set which helps minimise any set (permanent bend) after you've finshed tillering the bow and will hopefully make it a faster shooter.

there is a way to tell when the stave is dry by weighing it every day till its stops losing weight i.e water and its equalised with the humidity in the locality, but if you live in a very humid or damp area you may have to dry it out further likewise it is possible to dry the stave out too much.

But i'd recommend you read up on that on paleoplanet or perhaps someone can clarify it better here.

BTW what kind of bow are you planning to make ? Longbow, Flatbow.

P.S. when you look at paleoplanet have a look for the guy whose made a Longbow from PINE heartwood that draws IIRC 50 lb. (found the link http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/17917)

Andy

 

[spamel]

I intend to make a shooty bow! As long as it fires a stick in roughly the direction I point it, I'll be happy!

I haven't sealed the ends, I'll give The Ratbag a shout and go up and do it tonight maybe or tomorrow. Nice idea on make it have a bit of "back set" as you call it. I can see I'm gonna be learning new terminology! I spent last night reading up on war bows!

 

[Robbo]

A shooty bow, as opposed to a pile of firewood

War bows are nice if you can draw the 100+lbs needed to shoot them without rupturing your spleen

Ok a quick lesson in bow terminology:

Back - the part of the bow that faces the target i.e the part thats in tension.

Belly - the part of the bow facing you when you draw it i.e the part in compression

Set - any permanent bend left in the bow after its unstrung, also known as string follow

Backset - the opposite of set

Brace height - the distance between the string and the belly of bow when its strung, also called 'fistmele' on a wooden bow its about 6 inches.

Tiller - the way a bow bends when its drawn i.e. a good tiller is when all the bow is equally stressed (there are cases when a bow can be slightly asymetrical in tiller like a true english longbow, but its not really english they just made it famous )

Tillering stick - long 2x2 or similar with notches every inch or so to check how well the bow is bending during the build, some use a pully with a scale behind.

Nock - part of the bow where the bow string sits, this can be two grooves at each side, a single groove at one side (the other end will have groove at opposite side) or a wrapping of sinew or other cordage glued in place.

Working handle - where the handle section of a bow bends slighty when drawn found on stone age through to medieaval long bows and many Native american bows.

i'm pretty sure I'm right in most of that but if not I'm sure someone will correct me .

Also a little set is a good thing it shows the bows being stressed but overly so where as no set or back set can mean its overbuilt and not working as effiecently as it could.

Ah the nuances of bow design , just wait till you read the posts on paleoplanet, heat tempering, trapezoid cross-section's, backing laminations, perry reflex, reflex-deflex bows, holmgaard style(very cool 10-9 thousand year old design), mare heath style (another ancient design), pyramid style, short bows, plains indian style, east coast indian style, composite asiatic bows ( wood , horn and sinew ) Japanese bows.

Andy

 

[Grooveski]

You could do yourself a favor and strip the bark off while it's still green(don't know how long the honeymoon period lasts).
It's soooooo much easier than cutting the bark down to the back later.

Have only done it once but if I'd cut some Ash yesterday getting the bark off would be top of the list of things to do. I put up some photos here of peeling that one.

Don't damage the back while you're peeling.

 

[Staghound]

You could do yourself a favor and strip the bark off while it's still green(don't know how long the honeymoon period lasts).
It's soooooo much easier than cutting the bark down to the back later.

Have only done it once but if I'd cut some Ash yesterday getting the bark off would be top of the list of things to do. I put up some photos here of peeling that one.

Don't damage the back while you're peeling.

Did you get a bow out of that yew in the end Grooveski? how about the ash?

 

[mariobab]

I never seal the ends of ash,unlike black locust it doesn't check.I let roughly shaped sit for two or three weeks,depends on weather and temperature,and then progress carefully day by day.Don't have moisture meter so I go on intuition.About four or five weeks from cutting ash bow is done.
And maybe you shouldn't go for war bow as your first one.

 

[Grooveski]

Did you get a bow out of that yew in the end Grooveski? how about the ash?

The yew is lying around with the sides cut down a bit further. It was still greenish then so I can get away with saying it's seasoning.
The Ash has had one more evening out with a rasp and file and is about ready for the sinew.
Basically "no" and "no".....
.....yet.

 

[Eric_Methven]

... reflex-deflex bows, holmgaard style(very cool 10-9 thousand year old design), mare heath style (another ancient design), pyramid style, short bows, plains indian style, east coast indian style, composite asiatic bows ( wood , horn and sinew ) Japanese bows.

And now you can add 'Shooty Bow' to that illustrious list.

Eric