Is there any reason why you can't use wax, like Barbour's thornproof Dressing, to treat a cotton or a poly-cotton smock to make it waterproof? I guess it would cut down its breathability, but would it work apart from that do you think??
proofing a smock
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Shambling Shaman
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'v always used nitwax. But have thought about waxing my smock, would like to see if any one had done this..
Do you put that in your hair?
In all seriousness, have a look at the Nikwax and Grangers websites - they have a range of products that should be suitable for washing into a cotton/polycotton garment. I have to say, I've tried proofing things before and had mixed success but it's often worth having a go!
Shambling Shaman
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Do you put that in your hair?
In all seriousness, have a look at the Nikwax and Grangers websites - they have a range of products that should be suitable for washing into a cotton/polycotton garment. I have to say, I've tried proofing things before and had mixed success but it's often worth having a go!
type'o'
Both Grangers and Nikwax produce wash-in proofers for cotton, but I wondered if you could use the Barbour-style wax compound which I think you put on with a brush?? Has anyone tried this with a non-Barbour cotton top?
look at fjallraven they use greenland wax on G1000 (poly/cotton mix) fabric very similar to barbour wax maybe?
http://www.fjallraven.org/templates/function.asp?SectionId=3182
http://www.fjallraven.org/Products/Product.asp?ItemId=97&FromSearch=yes
http://www.fjallraven.org/templates/function.asp?SectionId=3182
http://www.fjallraven.org/Products/Product.asp?ItemId=97&FromSearch=yes
Ive just proofed an ex-military heavyweight cotton smock with Greenlander wax. Ive not used it in heavy rain as yet but its kept out a few showers, the water beading nicely and running off.It will be intresting to see how it performs in the winter.
I haven't notice much difference with the breathablity it still seems much better than a synthetic.
I though the wax quite reasonable at £5 a block and ive only used a small amount. The packet says its enough for about ten garments. It was really easy to use just rub on and iron in- took about 20 mins. Tamarack Bushcraft seem to be the only place that sell it unless anyone knows different. Ed
I haven't notice much difference with the breathablity it still seems much better than a synthetic.
I though the wax quite reasonable at £5 a block and ive only used a small amount. The packet says its enough for about ten garments. It was really easy to use just rub on and iron in- took about 20 mins. Tamarack Bushcraft seem to be the only place that sell it unless anyone knows different. Ed
Thanks for the help guys. I've ordered some greenlander wax and will let you know how well it works.
The theory with Barbour type wax is that you block the holes in the weave with wax so water cannot get through. The disadvantage here is that it cannot escape either, so the clothing cannot breath and you can get moisture inside with sweating.
The Nikwax approach is to coat the cotton fibres which will make the hole in the weave smaller, too small for water droplets to pass through. However, it's not too small for water vapour to pass through. This allows your sweat vapour to escape, so the clothing retains it's breathability. I believe that is the advantage of Ventile and Goretex (though if i'm wrong, a certain Mr Fenna will probably be along shortly to put me right!).
I personally love Nikwax, so much so that most of my clothing get's a treatment. I have devised a Nikwax tactic which i mentioned quite a while ago. I came to this conclusion when i first started using cottonproof (then called TX-10) in the early 90's.
1) Wash the item in a washing machine ensuring you do not use any detergent and that the machine draw if free from soap.
2) Using Cotton proof, wash the garment as per the instructions on the bottle while the garment is still wet.
3) Repeat step 2 a second time.
4) Repeat step 2 a third time
This is your initial proofing. When it comes time to wash, use Nikwax wash and then reproof (once only this time). Hey presto, job done. It has to be said though that this may only make the garment heavy showerproof and that, for total waterproof, your best off with a dedicated waterproof garment. Having said that, i can't fault it!
The Nikwax approach is to coat the cotton fibres which will make the hole in the weave smaller, too small for water droplets to pass through. However, it's not too small for water vapour to pass through. This allows your sweat vapour to escape, so the clothing retains it's breathability. I believe that is the advantage of Ventile and Goretex (though if i'm wrong, a certain Mr Fenna will probably be along shortly to put me right!).
I personally love Nikwax, so much so that most of my clothing get's a treatment. I have devised a Nikwax tactic which i mentioned quite a while ago. I came to this conclusion when i first started using cottonproof (then called TX-10) in the early 90's.
1) Wash the item in a washing machine ensuring you do not use any detergent and that the machine draw if free from soap.
2) Using Cotton proof, wash the garment as per the instructions on the bottle while the garment is still wet.
3) Repeat step 2 a second time.
4) Repeat step 2 a third time
This is your initial proofing. When it comes time to wash, use Nikwax wash and then reproof (once only this time). Hey presto, job done. It has to be said though that this may only make the garment heavy showerproof and that, for total waterproof, your best off with a dedicated waterproof garment. Having said that, i can't fault it!
Ive used Greenland wax on a single ventile shirt, just on the upper back and shoulders and it keeps a bit more rain out, with good breathability. Wasn't working up a huge sweat though.
it works both ways though as semi proofing will also keep the moisture in for longer once its failed. older army jackets were meant to be proofed and dry clean only which was wishfull thinking. we tried allsorts to little avail.
Not sure if this is 100% pertinent to 'normal' cotton/polycotton garments, but it might help you make a decision: I purchased a ventile jacket about 9 months ago. Due to the high cost involved, I was a bit nervous about the whole waterproof issue of ventile and so I asked a lot of questions before going ahead. The upshot was that I was advised by the supplier against proofing the garment, not only when it was new, but even once it had aged. The main reasoning was because it would result in a reduction of what the ventile was designed to do - breathe. Or to put it another way, why spend all that money and then go and spoil the design? I might just as well have bought a cheaper PVC jacket.
There is also the other issue of a significant increase in weight.
There is also the other issue of a significant increase in weight.
Re my last sentence in my previous post: I had in mind waxed cotton when I typed that. Don't know what the weight penalty of Nikwax would be.
I agree it would be daft to wax ventile as you are paying a lot of money for its weather resistant, breathable qualities. What I'm planning is putting the wax on a cheap cotton/polycotton smock hoping it will make it significantly more water resistant, enough to get me through a good bit of rain. I accept it will be les breathable but there should still be a good bit of venting potential and the cotton would handle any condensation better than synthetics.
That's the theory anyway..
That's the theory anyway..
Greenlander wax arrived and I used it on a cheap cotton jacket from my local army shop. The instructions recommend using either a hairdryer or an iron to melt in the wax. I used an iron and it was very easy. Wore it to the woods over the weekend and it coped with a couple of light showers easily with the rain beading on the surface. It won't stand heavy rain I'm sure, but Fjallraven say you can put more coats on which improves water resistance but of course impairs breathability. All in all, £5 well spent.
Hmmmmm...interesting...
Here's how I understand it: Ventile works in a different way to other breathables. When it gets wet, the cotton fibre threads expand to plug the holes between the close weave. This stops the water getting in/out. It's also why ventile goes quite stiff when it's wet.
If you try and 'waterproof' ventile, I suspect it would stop the material getting wet and so would stop the weave closing up.
For other cotton-type materials, the weave is wider and so, whilst the threads will never expand enough to close off the weave, a DWR (Durable Water Repellent) coating should make the garment showerproof by stopping it 'wetting out' straight away.
Right, I await John Fenna's anti-aircraft guns of truth to blast my small aeroplane of assumption out of the sky. (Ack-ack!)
Here's how I understand it: Ventile works in a different way to other breathables. When it gets wet, the cotton fibre threads expand to plug the holes between the close weave. This stops the water getting in/out. It's also why ventile goes quite stiff when it's wet.
If you try and 'waterproof' ventile, I suspect it would stop the material getting wet and so would stop the weave closing up.
For other cotton-type materials, the weave is wider and so, whilst the threads will never expand enough to close off the weave, a DWR (Durable Water Repellent) coating should make the garment showerproof by stopping it 'wetting out' straight away.
Right, I await John Fenna's anti-aircraft guns of truth to blast my small aeroplane of assumption out of the sky.
(Ack-ack!)
Could you use Grangers Super Proof instead then perhaps? I'm not sure whether this would have a subtler effect on the weave than wax and help retain some of the original suppleness?
Right, I await John Fenna's anti-aircraft guns of truth to blast my small aeroplane of assumption out of the sky.
I like that! It's on similar lines to Captain Jack Sparrow 'May i take a machete to your intellectual thicket!' Nice one Mikey, teach you that at Cranwell?
