Problems starting a fire

  • Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
P

Perfects

Guest
To be a pain in my first post, I would like to ask a question of you all...

I'm very new to all things bushcraft and I'm having a lot of problems lighting a fire. I've collected thin, easily broken, dead pieces of wood that are off the ground, however it's very wet round my way at the moment. I've had no luck getting anything burning really, even with cotton balls/vaseline to try and make it easier.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Leo
 

SimonM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 7, 2007
4,015
6
East Lancashire
www.wood-sage.co.uk
Try collecting dead standing wood and splitting it down. The wood in the middle will be drier than than the thin stuff you are collecting off the ground.

Split your kindling down to about match stick diameter if it is damp and build up to about finger thickness, slowly. Let the flames build up before you add more fuel. A common mistake is to dump too much fuel on to the fire too soon, which deprives the flames of oxygen and if the fuel is damp, also cools it.

Remember the fire triangle... a fire needs 3 things:-
  1. Fuel
  2. Oxygen
  3. Heat

If you take anyone away it goes out.

HTH

Simon
 
P

Perfects

Guest
Thanks for the reply, just one quick question if you don't mind. By dead standing wood do you mean dead trees still rooted to the ground?

Yes... I really am a beginner at this :D
 

SimonM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 7, 2007
4,015
6
East Lancashire
www.wood-sage.co.uk
Thanks for the reply, just one quick question if you don't mind. By dead standing wood do you mean dead trees still rooted to the ground?

Yes... I really am a beginner at this :D

Yup.... or a dead branch still attached to the main trunk, but off the ground.

If you have to take wood off the floor, go for thicker stuff and split it length ways. The material in the middle should be dry (er) and give you more of a chance.

Simon
 
P

Perfects

Guest
Fantastic! Thanks a lot, it perplexed me for a long time why I couldn't do it when it's just so easy in dry weather.

Cheers, Leo
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,394
2,412
Bedfordshire
If the wood you are picking up has dead bark on it, this can hold a lot of moisture and it can be worth while removing the damp bark from things that are thumb thick up to about wrist thick.

That is another reason that getting dead standing wood from 2 inches diameter and up and splitting it down. More surface area, and less surface dampness.

Am I right that you are in Washington State? Pacific rain forest country? I am just wondering what kind of trees you have around and whether any might offer good fire wood possibilities. Some places have birch, or ash, or spruce, or fat pine that can be good for use in a fire in their own ways.

One thing that a lot of people do is not use enough of each type of fuel. You don't want to just dump a load of sticks on the fire, so smothering it, but the temptation is often there to use as little tinder or kindling as you can. A 6 or 7 inch diameter tinder bundle is going to do a lot more to dry damp kindling than a 4inch bundle. Equally, having two 4 -5 inch bundles of dead twigs, all less than 1/4 inch diameter, and at least as long as from your finger tips to your elbow, will do more to dry the thumb and finger thick wood than just a handful of 8 inch twigs.

Use whatever wind you have available. At first you don't want it to blow the fire out, but soon you can use it to fan the flames and force dry that damper wood. In dry conditions I have seen logs of 8 to 10 inch diameter ignited with nothing more than waste paper and a strong, hot dry wind. When they burned down, fresh logs were lit just by pushing the old embers together and making a wind funnel of new logs around them.

If you lay your fire on a base of split wood this can help too. This gets the embryonic heart off damp ground, permits air to get under the fire more easily early on, and helps to create an ember bed without having larger bits of wood crushing down on the fire.

Good fuel/tinder/kindling doesn't exist everywhere. If you need fire often, but find a dearth of good materials in some places, think about collecting materials when you find them, then carrying them till needed. You can get some stuff to dry a bit by using body heat. This is mostly for tinder, rather than kindling, but if you find a really good bit of dead standing wood, you could cut some and take it with you to split down to jumpstart your fire later on.

Bigger fuel burns best when it has about a finger gap around it. Enough space for air flow, but still close enough that the heat radiated from one surface gets to heat its neighbor. The joke is that the experienced woodsman kicks a sickly fire and it blazes up, the greenhorn kicks the fire and it promptly goes out. This is to do with spacing.

Best of luck! :)
 
P

Perfects

Guest
Thanks for more advice C_Claycomb, I actually live in Washington in England.

I think what I was doing was alternating between using too much kindling and not enough, as well as using twigs sitting from the floor. I'll be out again nice and early tomorrow to try again with the above advice :)

I've been looking for fatwood since I saw a very informative post on Bushcraft UK, but I don't even know if I will ever find it in my area.

Thanks again, Leo
 

Shewie

Mod
Mod
Dec 15, 2005
24,259
24
48
Yorkshire
Chris and Simon have pretty much said it all but I`ll add a couple more pointers for you mate.

Once you have your tinder sorted out, gather long matchstick thin sticks as long as your forearm into a bundle about 6" thick. Lay two of these bundles in a cross on top of your tinder and light it. Once the flames are coming through the top add the finger thick stuff. As Chris said don`t be mean with the first lot of kindling, make sure you have plenty on.

Once the fire is established I`ve found stacking the bigger damper logs in a pyramid over the fire helps to speed up the drying process. You can stack other fuel up against the side of the fireplace to catch warm air as the wind blows through.

As for the fatwood, try and find an old pine stump in the ground
 
P

Perfects

Guest
Well after trying long and hard I now think of myself as a fool for not just asking you all first! Thanks Shewie for your input. It's all very helpful

Leo
 
Jan 13, 2004
434
1
Czech Republic
Follow the above advice first, but when you've got things going on a roll you could try using some wood types which burn when green, this can help avoid the problem of not gathering enough kindling for the earlier stages of the fire. Thin-as-possible green ash twigs burn well when given enough initial heat, which can come from a stack of feather sticks for instance. The difference between green wood and wet wood is that sap can burn whereas water requires a lot of energy to be driven off the wood. The other difference is that it is easy to gather when it's raining. An even better green wood kindling is softwood with a large amount of resin (also, the dead resinous wood will be less saturated after rain).

The best solution though is as described above my post, providing you have the tools to prepare the wood, which you should do, and I concur that dead standing wood should be the second thing you look for (the first being your tinder).
 
P

Perfects

Guest
Thanks for all the advice, it really has helped. Does anyone know of information on how to identify trees in the UK? Being an absolute novice I know nada unfortunately
 

Mike Ameling

Need to contact Admin...
Jan 18, 2007
872
1
Iowa U.S.A.
www.angelfire.com
Building your fire against a larger log, or between two sections of larger wood helps - that "radiating heat" stuff. And, as your small kindling burns up, you can end up with a hollow area beneath your kindling. If you see this happening, work some more small kindling down under your burning kindling. This helps keep your fire going until more "coals" build up. I've seen this happen with a number of friends -- who were then surprised that their fire just ... went out ... after burning so well at first.

I like to gather small dead branches from next to the trunk of cedar trees. Around here, they all seem to have a bunch of dead branches near their bottoms. And I also peal off several strips of that loose cedar bark while I am gathering my kindling. That cedar bark makes great tinder.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
58
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
Thanks for all the advice, it really has helped. Does anyone know of information on how to identify trees in the UK? Being an absolute novice I know nada unfortunately

I bet you know more than you think. One of the best trees for firelighting is silver birch and it's dead easy to spot because of it's bark. Ever collected conkers as a kid? Then you are familiar with the horse chestnut. Everyone knows holly because of the leaves. Pine trees are easy to spot because they have needles and are green all year. Oak trees will have brown acorns all round them this time of year and the leaves are very distinctive, fruiting trees like apples and pears are easy to spot in autumn because of the fruit.. Etc...

The vast majority of trees in the UK are either pine, sycamore, beech, oak, elm, ash or birch and I bet you can already ID them. Once you have the common ones sussed, you can start looking for less common ones like yew and willow and pretty soon you'll be struggling to find a tree you cant ID.

http://www.british-trees.com/guide/home.htm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Tree-Guide-David-More/dp/0007139543
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trees-Collins-GEM-Alastair-Fitter/dp/0007183062/ref=pd_sim_b_18
 

rich59

Maker
Aug 28, 2005
2,217
25
65
London
Which green woods burn? - Are we talking pine/ spruce?

Follow the above advice first, but when you've got things going on a roll you could try using some wood types which burn when green, this can help avoid the problem of not gathering enough kindling for the earlier stages of the fire. Thin-as-possible green ash twigs burn well when given enough initial heat, which can come from a stack of feather sticks for instance. The difference between green wood and wet wood is that sap can burn whereas water requires a lot of energy to be driven off the wood. The other difference is that it is easy to gather when it's raining. An even better green wood kindling is softwood with a large amount of resin (also, the dead resinous wood will be less saturated after rain).

The best solution though is as described above my post, providing you have the tools to prepare the wood, which you should do, and I concur that dead standing wood should be the second thing you look for (the first being your tinder).
 
P

Perfects

Guest
That site is great thanks, I'm sure one or both of the books will appear around christmas time, if both are necessary? I'm hopefully going for a walk tonight so I'll be on the look out through the woods :)
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,394
2,412
Bedfordshire
I actually bought my tree identification book from a high street shop!:D I went into Waterstones and just looked at everything they had and picked the one that seemed to have the best pictures. Mostly you can work stuff out without a book, but it takes time.
 

crazydave

Settler
Aug 25, 2006
858
1
54
Gloucester
if you are that bad at firelighting then split it into two stages. tinder lighting you can learn in the garden or even the kitchen. for big fires then some of those cardboard bbq lighters might be worth a couple of quid so you learn the art of building the fire from your heart.

another trick is to learn hom to plait firelighters from newpaper.
 
Nov 2, 2008
2
0
lancashire
Hi all, Crazy dave, do you have a picture of a plaited firelighter from newspaper, ive never heard of this sounds interesting and reliable i would expect?

Cheers
 
Jan 13, 2004
434
1
Czech Republic
Rich,

I've used Ash most successfully (burns very hot), but also birch and willow. Just make sure they are as thin as possible and straight off the tree. I usually use it as a supplement to whatever dry kindling I can find.

My home in England is near a Douglas Fir monoculture, not ideal, but this is the only softwood I've tried using and it works well. I imagine it's pretty similar for all softwoods due to the extra hydrocarbons but try it out.


My dad always used newspaper indoors to light the fire (rolled them then turned them into ringed dooughnuts). It works well, he ususally puts wood [then coal, in deepest winter] straight on top, leaves the vent open and lets it roar for about 10 minutes and bingo, one hot fire he can shut down to burn slowly and efficiently through the evening. For this reason when I was young I automatically tried newspaper outside for the camp fires, but I soon realised that it was far more important to have enough real tinder and a good transition from small to big. Oh, and tipi fires suck with newspaper, that's the other thing I found out, as the paper disappears leaving a massive gap.

Paper is best indoors when you've got a strong and constant airflow. It can put out a fire outdoors by stopping full airflow around the kindling.
 

BCUK Shop

We have a a number of knives, T-Shirts and other items for sale.

SHOP HERE