Preparing for troubled times ahead - Advice on what is needed.....

[nigelp]

Well, it's certainly a debatable subject. In regards to preparing for the future though, I'd be more inclined to recommend a lifestyle that promotes good health and a strong immune system.

Quite. I do that also and then get a boost to the immune system.

 

[William_Montgomery]

So repeated infections then.

Seriously, vaccines aside because they prime the immune system, the only way to build up a 'healthy' immune system is to catch multiple infections and fight them off.

It's not a lot of fun, and it does otherwise grind you down, and in some instances can truly be deadly.

So, Polio, Diphtheria, Measles, etc., are still given as vaccines to children, and adults if required.
I am of a generation that bears scars from smallpox vaccinations. We don't do that to children any more, because we all bear scars.......

Can't see that happening nowadays though, too many won't take the vaccinations, so even the horrors of polio are slowly rearing their detestable heads again.
Scarlet fever's back with a bang too.

"Coughs and sneezes spread diseases"....said the old public service announcements.
But those are considered 'demeaning, infantilising and insulting to others intelligence' these days, so aren't broadcast any more.

I feel sorry for those who are immune compromised, whose immune system is so impaired that they don't fight off infection easily.
Thoughtless carelessness is literally killing them.

No, I wasn't specifically talking about repeated infections. I was talking more about lifestyle changes, exercise routines, a healthy diet etc.
Yes, natural immunity and exposing your immune system are highly important too. But, certainly not 'the only way to build up a healthy immune system'.

Whether or not somebody has had a vaccine is their own business.

 

[The Frightful]

My work offered flu jabs in November. I had one, yet I caught a bug at work a week before Christmas and am still not over it. I got off light, four days of fever, deep chest cough that has lingered and picked up again as of yesterday. Almost everyone at work has been sick, many still coughing weeks later. All who tested for covid, myself included, had negative results. Apparently vaccines didn't do much for us in this case, unless of course the difference between my "mild" symptoms and colleagues who were literally bed bound for days, was the flu vaccine.

We got offered a flu jab but didn't bother. We had virtually the same conditions as you, 3 days bed, cough, that broke up, started thinking 'yay its on its way out' wrong. Its like a b***** shapeshifter, still lingering now. Son was over from Oz for 1st christmas dinner in 15 yrs and we had to cancel. Instantly regretted not having the jab, seems like it wouldn't have made a hapeth of difference anyway !

 

[Toddy]

No, I wasn't specifically talking about repeated infections. I was talking more about lifestyle changes, exercise routines, a healthy diet etc.
Yes, natural immunity and exposing your immune system are highly important too. But, certainly not 'the only way to build up a healthy immune system'.

Whether or not somebody has had a vaccine is their own business.

I disagree.....it's everybody's business, because it's everybody's health that's at risk.
The reality is that there's always a tipping point of enough people who have been vaccinated vs those who haven't, to make an enormous difference in the efficacy of eradicating the disease. Smallpox was a success, polio was on it's way to being one.

Healthy living didn't stop flu killing millions in the early 20th century, indeed it was noted that it mostly took the young fit and healthy.
Healthy living while an admirable thing, doesn't stop someone getting infected, and then it's a very individual thing whether you just thole it until the body kills it off, or it kills you.
Meanwhile the more people who are infected and pass that along, just helps the blasted virus mutate.

All a vaccine does is give the body a heads up, a fighting start, so long as the vaccine is appropriate.

Repeated infections of one kind or another help keep the immune system active, again, that head start.

We finally relaxed after the last round of vaccinations (Son2 is immune compromised from lymphatic cancer, he's cured, but the scars from dozens of tumours leave his system impaired and sluggish despite a truly healthy lifestyle) before Hallowe'en time. I shopped, and had lunch out with friends. In three weeks I had three different colds and coughs. No covid-19 or flu though, thankfully.
I haven't had a cold or cough since despite being out and about through the Christmas crowds. Pretty sure it was my immune system getting a good 'heads up'.

 

[Woody girl]

There is a new varient, XBB15, which it's an offshoot of the omicron, and they calculate 1 in 25 cases in the past few weeks in the uk were of this.
Though that is only a guess based on hospitalised people.
It apparently can evade the vaccine due to its many mutations.
Heard it on radio 4 today.
Been seeing people wearing masks again over the past few days.
This begs the question on whether its worth getting jab 4. I'm very vunerable, but stay home and don't socialise much at the moment.
It's a real hassle to go and get jabbed , spending a total of 3 hrs or near enough on a tiny bus with nobody taking any precautions about spreading it to a vunerable person....they are alright and won't die if they get it......but I might.
The free lifts for a jab have stopped, so , do I risk it?
Quandary!

 

[William_Montgomery]

I disagree.....it's everybody's business, because it's everybody's health that's at risk.
The reality is that there's always a tipping point of enough people who have been vaccinated vs those who haven't, to make an enormous difference in the efficacy of eradicating the disease. Smallpox was a success, polio was on it's way to being one.

Healthy living didn't stop flu killing millions in the early 20th century, indeed it was noted that it mostly took the young fit and healthy.
Healthy living while an admirable thing, doesn't stop someone getting infected, and then it's a very individual thing whether you just thole it until the body kills it off, or it kills you.
Meanwhile the more people who are infected and pass that along, just helps the blasted virus mutate.

All a vaccine does is give the body a heads up, a fighting start, so long as the vaccine is appropriate.

Repeated infections of one kind or another help keep the immune system active, again, that head start.

We finally relaxed after the last round of vaccinations (Son2 is immune compromised from lymphatic cancer, he's cured, but the scars from dozens of tumours leave his system impaired and sluggish despite a truly healthy lifestyle) before Hallowe'en time. I shopped, and had lunch out with friends. In three weeks I had three different colds and coughs. No covid-19 or flu though, thankfully.
I haven't had a cold or cough since despite being out and about through the Christmas crowds. Pretty sure it was my immune system getting a good 'heads up'.

With all due respect, it's getting a bit off topic. I stand by my statement and there are things you said which I would dispute, but it might be a subject for a private conversation.
Feel free to send me a private message, if you wish.

 

[Woody girl]

Preparing for troubled times ahead.
How is it off topic?

Covid was only the first wheel to fall off the wagon... its still affecting us, , and will be for some time to come .
It's not over yet, and even the experts are concerned a worse variant might be coming down the line at some point.
We don't know what will happen.
It's not just about buying candles and extra food.
The Ukraine war, has shown us how vunerable the world economy is.
Then there is climate change, (and those who deny it exists, or don't care.)
Recession
NHS in meltdown,
strikes,
cost of living,
oil, gas etc,
Bird flu, (affecting egg production and the price of chicken )
Fertiliser, affecting the cost of farming in general, and food prices.
I could go on.
There are many issues, that put things at stake, and all points are valid. Even if you don't agree with them, because they don't seem to be affecting your life, for many it's a lived experience, so perfectly valid.

 

[Toddy]

With all due respect, it's getting a bit off topic. I stand by my statement and there are things you said which I would dispute, but it might be a subject for a private conversation.
Feel free to send me a private message, if you wish.

I rather think Woody girl summed it up nicely

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Healthy living didn't stop flu killing millions in the early 20th century, indeed it was noted that it mostly took the young fit and healthy.

Presumably you're referring to the 'Spanish flu' outbreak in 1918 there. Well, true it did take an unusually high number of young adults but they were far from fit & healthy. Coming at the end of the first world war, malnourishment, poor hygene & over crowded medical facilities, favoured secondary bacterial superinfections which killed a large number of patients. The actual H1N1 influenza A virus was no more virulent than other flu viruses but the immune systems of the people at the time, were compromised.

One of the reasons the Covid- 19 was so devastating in developed countries was the state of health of a large proportion of the population; overweight/obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, sedentary lifestyle...all of which are the result of unhealthy life choices.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

NHS in meltdown,

I heard on Radio 4 this morning that they're now booking patients into hotels. One has to admire the stoicism of the Brits.

 

[Woody girl]

I heard on Radio 4 this morning that they're now booking patients into hotels. One has to admire the stoicism of the Brits.

I listen to radio 4 all the time... I think its only a suggestion, but, there aren't many hotels left now, as we are having to accommodate the thousands of illegal immigrants from France, that the French are totaly unable to stop unless we pay them millions of euros, and send our own personal to do the job we pay them to do.!
whereas the French provide no facilities at all, just make them live in tents and shacks in misery, with no facilities, and raze their shanty towns to the ground in winter to encourage them to take the risk of small boats.... and a better life.
Stoicism???? Or humanity????

So only unhealthy people die of covid? Not true, many healthy normal people and pensioners died too, older people are more vunerable to any infection anyway, though I'll admit it does take less healthy people too, and that would be true of any infection.
Are all the Chinese citizens now suffering, and dieing all overweight ,obese and unhealthy ?
Anyway, this is bordering on politics, which is not allowed, so I apologise, but lean and mean 's attitude towards the british needs to be challenged, as he is according to his info, from France, and is rather......smug.(and that's the nicest word I can use)

 

[nigelp]

Wow. This thread is starting to take a path downwards into politics and to ‘Little England’ Street!

 

[TLM]

true it did take an unusually high number of young adults

I am not an epidemician but one of the reasons given as the cause for just that was the so called cytokine storm, an overreaction of the immune system. That has been said to be one of the problems with COVID too.

 

[Woody girl]

Wow. This thread is starting to take a path downwards into politics and to ‘Little England’ Street!

I have admittedly somewhat strayed, in reply to a comment that was thinly disguised as political, and provoking, for which I've apologised, and will say no more on this subject.
I'm afraid it needed calling out tho.

 

[Woody girl]

I am not an epidemician but one of the reasons given as the cause for just that was the so called cytokine storm, an overreaction of the immune system. That has been said to be one of the problems with COVID too.

That is a point a lot of people forget, and that can affect anyone, healthy or not.

 

[nigelp]

there aren't many hotels left now, as we are having to accommodate the thousands of illegal immigrants from France

In 2011 census there were nearly 39,000 hotel type establishments and just over 1.4 million bed spaces.

 

[TLM]

That is a point a lot of people forget, and that can affect anyone, healthy or not.

The main problem seems to be that the stronger your immune system is the stronger is cytokine reaction, so young healthy adults suffered.

 

[Woody girl]

In 2011 census there were nearly 39,000 hotel type establishments and just over 1.4 million bed spaces.

That was 2011, over 10 yrs ago, its now 2023, and many hotels are no longer in use, business having pretty much collapsed during covid for many.
I'd be interested in more up to date info.

Anyway, to change the subject back, to the ops original intention.
I try to do at least one thing towards securing my future every day, however small.
Today I'm taking stock of all my batteries, and will be topping up the AA range, as I've used several over Xmas for twinkly lights. So they need replenishing.
I'm also sorting out which seeds I'm going to plant both in the veg plot, and the wildflower plot.
Yesterday, I made a birdhouse from a kit I got for Xmas, and that needs a home somewhere in the garden, and the insect hibernation house needs a new screw to secure it to the fence properly, as it's become loose, due to a local pheasant liking to sit on it!
Bulk cooking some of the garden leeks into leek and potato soup to freeze for quick meals in the future.

 

[William_Montgomery]

I rather think Woody girl summed it up nicely

From what I can gather, you take issue with two points.

Firstly, you stated that a healthy immune system can only be achieved through vaccination or infection.

Secondly, you say that an individuals personal choice regarding medical treatment should be the business of everybody.

Like I said, I'm open to discussing those points with you. But, it seems more considerate to do it over a private conversation. I imagine it would be somewhat tiresome for people who aren't interested to have to read through our back and forth when the connection to the original thread is tenuous, at best.

Over the last few years I've seen many people take medical treatment with the intention of protecting themselves, that's fine, but a majority of whom make absolutely no attempt to improve their health, continue to consume junk and spend the majority of their time sitting down in front of a computer or television. The problem is when those people start to lecture others on the best way to be healthy, and worse, feel they have the right to dictate other peoples medical decisions.

In an attempt to bring this vaguely back on track, if your outlook is steeped in fear and you avoid personal responsibility for your own well being, then you'll never be prepared for whatever is coming down the line.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

So only unhealthy people die of covid? Not true, many healthy normal people and pensioners died too, older people are more vunerable to any infection anyway, though I'll admit it does take less healthy people too, and that would be true of any infection.
Are all the Chinese citizens now suffering, and dieing all overweight ,obese and unhealthy ?

No, not only unhealthy people die of covid & I didn't suggest that but a healthy lifestyle does stack the odds in your favour of having a better immune system & not developing underlying health issues which render you more vulnerable when faced with an infection; 40% of cancers for example, are directly linked to an unhealthy lifestyle, does that mean people who have a healthy lifestyle never develope cancer ? Of course not, just that they reduce the risks.
The problem the Chinese are facing now is that the citizens were locked up in their homes for months on end, stressed out of their minds (which is never good ) & protected from all infection & so have no acquired immunity among the population to act as a break to the spread of the virus, even to the omicron variant which is pretty tame compared to the previous variants. Add to that the low percentage of the vaccinated, even if the Chinese vaccine isn't as effective as those in the west.