Preparedness for the paranoid?!

[bushbasher]

Does anyone have any thoughts about the Preparedness and survival sites in the USA. Do you think they may have a point? are we heading for a global catastrophy that only the prepared will come out of alive?

Are any of you stockpiling food weapons and supplies ready for the big one. Or are you stashing gold bullion and trade goods ready for an economic crash that will send us all back to the stone age?

Are we in the UK being complacent? or are our friends over the pond just being paranoid?

What do you think?

 

[arctic hobo]

I've no desire to give offence but to be honest I think they are being ridiculously paranoid. That said, we'd do well to face what's coming to the world. Many people have pointed out Peak Oil, there's also the stupendous economic crisis the US are heading for (which will affect us all), climate change, etc etc. However I don't think ten tons of firewood and a radiation suit will be much use to me. In the long run, the only people (assuming only one group survives) will be those who have the skills and are proficient with them, not those who stockpile material goods.

 

[TheViking]

I've no desire to give offence but to be honest I think they are being ridiculously paranoid. That said, we'd do well to face what's coming to the world. Many people have pointed out Peak Oil, there's also the stupendous economic crisis the US are heading for (which will affect us all), climate change, etc etc. However I don't think ten tons of firewood and a radiation suit will be much use to me. In the long run, the only people (assuming only one group survives) will be those who have the skills and are proficient with them, not those who stockpile material goods.

I have to be honest here as well as anywhere. :roll: I agree with hobo here. For a few years ago, I did almost nothing else than search the web for survival and packs for this. Today I'm sick and tired of hearing about survival kits, well at least not something I'd hear/read about every day. :shock: If you have 500 men you'd have 500 different kits. One larger than the other.

That said, I believe that some americans have the survival experience needed, but others don't. Some of them are in the belief that they can pack a survival kit, stuff it in the car and done. I've seen sites that goes to detail with 40 L packs filled with survival gear, problem is, I think you'd get tired of running with that all day 24-7. :roll: "All the gear, but no idea", isn't that what we say?

 

[Great Pebble]

There's certainly little point in having massive stockpiles of anything in the UK or any obvious means of being "better off" during times of hardship or emergency. UK emergency legislation dictates that anything the State feels can be used for the common good, or rather the good of the State, they can take without payment, without compensation, without permission and using any force deemed necessary. "Hoarding" (as having stockpiles becomes when they are actually necessary) is considered a crime...

Better to have a modest supply of useful items and a bit of wit.

Mind you, exactly what's likely to bring about your "emergency" is open to some speculation. My personal "favourites" are a general econonomic downturn or a situation in which Government becomes so repressive that a significant number of people decide to.... well, become "activists" shall we say.

Alien invasion isn't really on my list.

 

[tomtom]

i think maybe they do have a point.. remember America is a different country with different situations... many places there can have extreme weather conditions and natural hazards.. for example Scwert has written two articles about the kit he carrys on his person and in his car and office.. however he lives in an area where they have had earthquakes in the not so distant past where building and bridges etc have been damaged.. this is something he has to be aware of as he goes about his everyday life, not something most people in the uk need to take in to consideration. There are also places in america where people can get snowed in to their homes and then there are people who live in area which are frequently hit by hurricanes these also are not really things anyone in the uk needs to take in to consideration with our current climate.

while i do think some take this to extreme.. (i don't see a need to keep an automatic weapon under the matress) i do sometimes think we can get a little complacent.. a while ago a friend broke down late at night my village is not what i would consider remote but it was a good hours walk home for him and he wasn't dressed for the occasion, and i now normally have a coat a decent pair of shoes and a bottle of water in the car.

 

[Moine]

Hey Bushbasher

Here's my humble take on it. Some radical folks in the us call themselves "survivalists" and they are a tribe of their own. Often closely related to militias and right-wing/extreme-right-wing political opinions, those guys are preparing for WWIII. I sure think they will be ready to shoot at any trespasser, and that they will have plenty of food for a few weeks, but then what... ?

They are not prepared. They just like to play with big guns and imagine themselves ruling and being top of the food chain in a new world order. Those guys scare me.

That being said, even though I have no firearms at home, I do stock a minimum ammount of water, food, fuel... and a few other home essentials (batteries, flashlights, candles, batt powered radio, few tools and lots of duct tape...) that have proven handy more than once in real life. Just last summer the tap water was out, we had water to drink, wash the kids, cook the pasta, etc. Same for major power outage (that happened in winter in montreal, Canada, a few years back... that was ugly... very few prepared people could stay home while the others piled up in heated gymnasiums... or paid 3000$ a night for any cheap hotel room where they had generators...).

I DO think major crisis CAN happen, though. Just seeing how fast Sarajevo came down from hosting the olympics to the total chaos it was afterwards, I think nobody can honestly say that it won't ever happen to them. I don't think that's being paranoid... However, piling up full crates of 7.62 ammo and frag grenades are not the best way out IMHO... I like to concentrate on staying alive rather than killing anything that moves...

Besides if the **** really hits de fan, as they say, if I really need a gun I'll just have to pick one up.

Cheers,

David

 

[Adi007]

Great Pebble is right about the law in the UK as to hording, it's quite scary in fact. However, I would imagine that as long as you don't broadcast what you have and make a spectacle of yourself, you'd be fine.

However ... I wonder how long you'd keep hold of it in the face of others (I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode with the comet and how Homer wants in on Flander's shelterini). When the gas scares relating to terrorism were high on the agenda there were companies selling "executive" gas masks for those travelling on trains or the underground, but I wonder about two things:

1 - How much attention is carrying a mask going to attract (imagine having to explain that one)
2 - How many seconds could even Bruce Lee keep it on his face before someone had grabbed it off his face?

 

[leon-1]

However ... I wonder how long you'd keep hold of it in the face of others (I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode with the comet and how Homer wants in on Flander's shelterini). When the gas scares relating to terrorism were high on the agenda there were companies selling "executive" gas masks for those travelling on trains or the underground, but I wonder about two things:

1 - How much attention is carrying a mask going to attract (imagine having to explain that one)
2 - How many seconds could even Bruce Lee keep it on his face before someone had grabbed it off his face?

That's a good point Adi, but once again that all comes down to what is used, if it is along the lines of Sarin or VX then the chances are that you would not get a chance to use a mask yourself and since some of these are absorbed through the skin you would require a full suit.

If it happens, it happens, the chances are that all the survival kits in the world won't help (especially when it is more likely to be a longer period than a shorter one), all you can do is do your best with what you have and most of that should be between your ears.

 

[Great Pebble]

Umm... yes, you see that's a major problem. It doesn't matter how skilled you are at being uncomfortable in comfort if you happen to be in the vicinity of someone who'll quite happily stove your head in for the sake of taking a single meal off you...

 

[bushbasher]

Well I suppose thats where the automatic weapons come in to play.

I think I'll just sneak off into the woods without much fuss. Never did like crowds anyway. :?:

 

[Great Pebble]

With the best will in the world, there are very few locations in the UK where you're far enough form "civilization" to rely on seclusion. Country is just too tiny with too many people on it.

All this is, of course, very hypothetical.

 

[Stew]

I think I'll just sneak off into the woods without much fuss. :

We could turn it into a BCUK Moot!!
):

 

[Kath]

Good question, Bushbasher.

I think life is always a potential catastrophy and as such living is one long survival situation. So while I don't particularly relate to the websites that you're referring to, I would describe myself as a survivalist and I certainly do believe in preparedness. Maybe not with all the kit as such, but at least with what I hope is the common sense to deal with whatever life throws at me, and mine.

It's my belief that a lot of the interest in survivalism is a negative reaction to the pre-fabricated nature of modern western lifestyle and the inbuilt expectation that nothing bad can happen to us. How often do you hear cries of 'I didn't think things like that happened these days' or 'I always thought things like that happened to other people'? People think that living to a ripe old age with a particular lifestyle is guaranteed. And some can live in that bubble, whereas others see the deception. There are no such guarantees. So many find an answer in survivalism as a way to inject a little realism into the unsustainable and artificial bubble that we call society ... and I think perhaps some of them overdo it a little. I also think that many of them probably wish that this modern life would come crashing down around their ears so that they could return to something simpler and more real.

I see the membership of bcuk as being in touch with a slightly less extreme version of reality. Tapping into something much deeper, something much older, perhaps?

 

[zambezi]

With the best will in the world, there are very few locations in the UK where you're far enough form "civilization" to rely on seclusion. Country is just too tiny with too many people on it.

Bingo. I have the solution! We base ourselves off-shore on a giant floating island that grows organically as we lash yet more flotsam to its armoured outer walls. I was thinking of a name for it...Waterworld perhaps? Nope, it would have to be the BCUK Moat. ):

 

[RovingArcher]

I agree that some are very paranoid. So much so, that they are willing to go to any lengths to keep themselves safe. They are affraid, plain and simple. It's not really their fault though. I mean, with the news telling everyone that the world hates us and terrorists are on every corner, maybe they have a small right to be a little paranoid. :roll:

As for me, I was taught as a child that it's a man's duty to care for, provide for and protect his family and when their is an emergency and his family are safe, it is then his duty and his families duty to come together with his people and help them as well. For that reason and because we live in Earthquake country and have been a part of two floods, severe blizzard conditions and near hurricane force winds that topple trees, we have an adequate supply of food and fresh water, as well as complete medical gear put together by my loving woman and we are both proficient in archery and the few firearms that we possess.

If we lived elsewhere, how we approach it could be entirely different, if we approached it at all.

 

[dchinell]

For me, it's as much a hobby as anything. Same as bushcraft.

It's a really good hobby, I think. But I love it too much just to think I'm being prudent or anything. That wouldn't explain all the shiny new gear we see in our pictures, would it?

Bear

 

[maddave]

Preparedness is in the mind. It costs nothing and weighs nothing and you're not gonna lose it in the undergrowth

 

[Schwert]

I think that the web has plenty of examples of both the fringe groups that are preparing for Armageddon, and examples of others whose thinking is more based on probable events that may indeed be huge. I have found little of interest in the true survivalists, but quite a bit of interest in those who think about their daily lives and the likely scenarios that could affect them. A few years ago, I considered an attack on our cities unlikely, but recent events have shown this was fairly simple thinking. However, my scenarios are still predominantly based around natural events that can and will raise havoc with our infrastructure. I am not a believer in the stockpile and defend scenarios, but more along the lines of plan, learn skills, equip, and share for the common good.

It sometimes seems from the amount of web-based “information” that a huge number of people are thinking along the lines of preparedness or survival, but my experience with coworkers, family and friends is that it is a very rare person who has though much about any of these topics.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

The whole cammie clad survivalist phenomenon is a curious phenomenon. In the last days before Saigon fell a former navyman who served on a carrier tried to form a volunteer group of vets to return. They were going to fight under the confederate flag. When this failed he founded a charming little magazine called SOLDIER OF FORTUNE, the intellectual literature of insecure security guards and anyone bearing a physical resemblance to Danny Kay as Walter Mitty. Palladin Press began publishing lovely titles like HOW TO KILL, IMPROVISED EXPLOSIVES and SILENCERS, Vol 1-5. The popularity of assault rifles began, fueled as much by marketing as anything else. An inevitable sub culture was created, largely fueled by existing hate groups like the KKK and american nazi party who found a new medium to swim in, much like the anemic daily workers party during the anti war movement. It reached an almost self fullfilling point with the Oklaoma City bombing and the numbers are slowly dwindling. These survivalist sites have one thing in common, poor survival. I've lost track of the number that have come and gone. People get bored quickly here, even outside of California fads come and go. #10 cans of freeze dried lima beans, camouflaged Bible covers and group buys on CHICOM ammunition hold just so much appeal, especially when the regional mechanised unit commander gets laid off and his command vehicle gets repossessed by the loan company. If you can't car pool to the group retreat to wait for armageddon friday night the cost of gas to return to work Monday morning gets prohibitive. That, and if your daughter gets involved with some nice young man he often as not turns out to be an F.B.I. informant. I think half these outfits would be gone if the F.B.I. just stopped paying so many dues to keep tabs on them. Our own media love the image and perpetuate it in their uplifting morality plays on the TEEVEE. I had a good friend in the militia. He was so proud of the chicom AK47 he bought to defend american freedom. When I outshot and outranged him with my SMLE ( at 1/10th the cash outlay) he chucked it all. last I heard, he was hanging ouside of AREA 51 at the A-LEE-IN with all kinds of camera and recording equipment.

 

[zambezi]

Chris, what a cracking diatribe on the "survivalist" underbelly. Superb.

Some of the other comments in this thread also strike a [more serious] chord. Notably TomTom's tip that we should have a minimum of gear in the car is something I have always maintained, including a foil "space blanket". Equally good for shock victims after an RTA as for wrapping up in cold weather.

And Schwert's level headed approach to a reasonable and structured preparedness to forseeable natural disasters is spot on.