Preparedness for the paranoid?!

[Stuart]

Preparedness is in the mind. It costs nothing and weighs nothing and you're not gonna lose it in the undergrowth

my sentiments exactly, you can only really rely on your knowledge and abilitys.

no matter how much shiny kit you have you can guarantee that you'll have lost it in what ever event lead you to the situation in which you find yourself.


armed, hoarding survivalists are just a scary group looking for something to belive in.

 

[Adi007]

armed, hoarding survivalists are just a scary group looking for something to belive in.

I think that the term "scary group looking for something to believe in" seems to apply quite well to almost the entirity of humanity! ):

 

[Pict]

I used to be a “survivalist” in the best of the paranoid American tradition. I strongly believed that society was going to collapse and I would be on my own. I no longer subscribe to this philosophy.

As far as being armed goes, depending on the region most Americans are. Statistically about 48% of Americans have a firearm in the home but they are not distributed evenly. Most city dwellers do not have guns, most rural people do. If you look at a map of the red and blue states in the last election you’ll have a pretty good idea of where most of the armed and unarmed people live.

In my home state of Pennsylvania on opening day of deer season upwards of 1,000,000 hunters take to the woods all armed with manually operated high-powered rifles. The vast majority of hunters own at least a center-fire rifle, a .22 rifle, and a shotgun. I do not believe it is possible to “live off the land” in such a place, not when everyone else is doing the same thing..

I have participated in the opening day hunt many times. Far from the drunken band of shoot-anything-that-moves slobs they are caricatured as, 99% of these guys are hardworking family men taking a few days off to stock their freezers. They aren’t going to turn into a roving band of marauders. If society collapses they will rebuild society.

To isolate in some cabin or patch of forest is suicide. I came to the conclusion that you can’t be well armed enough to go it alone. If someone wants to kill you in a situation like that they will do it from 100 meters away while you’re taking a dump.

People survive in such extraordinary circumstances based on the strength of their relationships and interdependence. There might be a short-lived week or two of general panic but then people would start to pull together. I want to be in there pulling with them. Mac

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Most "survivalist" were never really into the mentality of preparedness other than the acquisition of perceived "needed goods" that would guaranty security, salvation as a group and a way of life etc.. I think initially it was a residual reaction to the "cold war" threat and the average persons inability to do "something" to affect any real action to his/her/their security. Your roof leaks ... "repair it", it is easy, it is visible, it is tangible.... but a perceived threat and invisible "enemy..ie target " is frustration at it's worst. People like to fix things and this movement was a physical way of soothing their "ego". After awhile it kind of takes on a life of it's own and just gets the better of many people. It was dying off as a whole with mainstream America except with the sensationalism of the press and Y2K and then 9/11 sent the paranoia factor sky high. Americans that I have met are very likable and decent people as anywhere in the world but just now are very nervous with these invisible threats that are the spoon fed offerings of an irresponsible sensationalist driven press.
just a thought
PS. There are and will always be true practitioners of preparedness but they are a different breed usually quiet and peaceful and normal :super:

 

[Andy]

It strikes me that as people americans are more scared of going back to some stone age type problem and as a nation they are the worst for usingup the resources which they have such a big fear of running out.
I also remember that supermarkets in the UK started rnning out of food when the petrol shortages were about. I guess thats the same sort of mentality

 

[woodrat]

good tread guys. heres my take. I was a survivalist back when it was really big, even worked as a consultant, but like you guys said the majority were both exstreme and short sighted. my veiw has mellowed with age, at one point I must have had over 30 guns, now less than a dozen. only one semi-auto in the bunch, a benelli shotgun, I like its utter reliability. we stock short term supplies, acople of months worth, for bad weather, or if for some reason we were tight on money[i.e. serious injury], and we rotate those stocks by using them for camping thoughout the year. as far as ww111 well society can do to itself whatever it likes , I'm not interested in any of that. I'm a free man, I give no allegeance to any group or goverment, [present company not incuded], we mke our own way, pay for things in cash , don't borrow money, don't have credit cards, live and let live, but It is my great comfort to know that if worst came to worst, my woman and I have the combination of skills, exsperiance, and basic gear to get though any situation that I can imagine .

 

[Ts1spoc]

Kath said it best. I don’t adhere to the survivalist mentality that the world will end. I do believe in being prepared like the boy scouts. I keep extra food and water on hand at all times. Not because of an invasion but because I have been without water and electric for two weeks on several occasions and if I did not have those items stored I would have to succumb to unscrupulous vendors who charge 6 times as much for a loaf of bread if I could find one.
As a whole I believe that those of us who hoard rations in an emergency will in times of crisis share our excess with those less fortunate. Several weeks ago Central Kansas saw a bad ice storm. In my city of 15,000 there were 5,000 people without power for almost two weeks. I saw many people open their homes and larders to those who could not cook and had no warm place to sleep. I know at times Americans seem like selfish people, but I also see them give generously in a bad situation.
I believe it is essential that everyone have some sort of preparations in case….. If you take a car trip, some tools and a few clamps or duct tape. If you go hiking at a stream, take an extra pair of socks. Take the time to think about the activity or event that you are going to do or is about to happen and what would be an inconvenience, not a disaster. There is a difference. Case in point a car trip. If you split a radiator hose, no problem. A few clamps and a screw driver and your back on the road. Throw a rod and you need an engine. It’s easy to carry a few small items that would allow you to repair the hose and get underway again. You can’t carry a new engine. Emergency preparedness is the same thing. Barring an all out disaster what would be handy to have if something unfortunate happened. We keep a spare tire in the trunk in case we have a flat. Why not some food and water in case we lose our power or we get snowed in or there is an earthquake or hurricane or tornado.

 

[akraven]

I will echo some other comments here. The "survivalists" that the media portrays are the fringe elements. I simply believe in being prepared to be able to feed my family and keep them warm. We live in a rural area and like to keep a little extra food,vehicles in good shape and extra firewood. We are at risk for power outages,earthquakes and related problems from living on the edge of the supply chain. Wilderness survival is a long term personal interest that I use while enjoying the outdoors here in Alaska. akraven in alaska

 

[crofter]

good question Bushbasher.
I like sites like OSF and Equipped as they are a more specialist than OMF and BCUK. I use them to learn about gear and get tips on survival, outdoor survival and preparedness. I am into these things as I have always had a love of the outdoors and over the years have had a few of my own scrapes that have taught me a lot and made me keen to learn more - both as a safety thing and as an extension of my outdoor interests, a bit like my interest in knives. Most if not all of my friends think that my hobby is weird and pointless and they would even look at BCUK and think it extreme. Personally I find forums like BCUK and OMF almost essential to me pursuing my hobby. Sites like Equipped and OSF are very useful for extending my knowledge further.
I suppose it is all a matter of perspective. I view the more extreme survival sites as both "extreme" and weird and pointless as they do not view the subject from the same point as me - hence I tend not to use them.

On the subject of survival when the worst happens I tend to be more fatalistic. I agree that it really helps to have common sense and broad survival knowledge in all its forms - but I really believe that what would determine whether I end up surviving a disaster is LUCK pure and simple. If I was caught up in the Tsunami and I was LUCKY enough not to die immediately I would hopefully have had a fixed blade knife, some paracord, a FAK, iodine and chlorine tablets and a small PSK on me. I suspect that these things and some preparedness knowledge would have affected the quality of my survival but whether I survived would have been down to luck and fate.
The thing that I like about BCUK is that knowledge and experience is as important as the fun of doing bushcraft and the gear we use.

Ade

 

[philaw]

I'd have to agree that preparedness can only be a good thing, and having SOME supplies of things like food, water and candles is an obvious precaution in a society that is likely to stay afloat, but will be hellish if it doesn't, and dangerous if it fails for a fortnight. People that have grown accustomed to being able to make fire, find water, etc, naturally have a more detached view of the way everyone in developed economies is dependent on a chain of others for the necessities, and prefer to have back up.

I think things only get questionable when you start devoting a disproportionate effort to surviving calamities, and make surviving them your main purpose in life. Expending 50% of your energies on avoiding a 5% chance of doom says more about the person than the risk. Insecurity? Boredom and the desire for excitement? If I had a boring job, then I'd want armagedon to come along and liven things up, too, but I just left my boring job to go look for a different kind of excitement, so I'll settle for spare food and water, when I get around to buying it.

 

[bambodoggy]

It strikes me that as people americans are more scared of going back to some stone age type problem and as a nation they are the worst for usingup the resources which they have such a big fear of running out.
I also remember that supermarkets in the UK started rnning out of food when the petrol shortages were about. I guess thats the same sort of mentality

I agree with you 100% about a fear of going back to the stone age but I don't think the American's are any more scared of it than any other civilised western nation...
As you say the Supermarkets in the UK emptied pretty quick during the petrol shortages and I think this is simply human nature. To try to look after yourself and your family and keep them healthy...
As with a lot of things, the US is simply more vocal and evidently more willing and able to push this to an extreme form such as the "Survival Malitia" etc.

There's an old and unofficial saying..."Bigger is better, an American tradition", and it's very true for most of them imo. While some of us europeans may think this excessive or even crass, there are others of us that are envious of what the US can and has achieved.

Me...? I'm somewhere in the middle :super: but I think the above goes some way to explaining how/why these survival movements had grown in the US.

Just my thoughts.....hope I've not offended anyone :wave:

I also view preparedness totally differently to Survival...I have a small stock pile of food at home (couple of ratpacks and a few extra tins), a camping lantern and water treatment methods and I keep a warm coat, couple of chocolet bars and FAK in my car.... this is preparedness to some, plain common sence to others...

 

[Stuart]

Expending 50% of your energies on avoiding a 5% chance of doom says more about the person than the risk

nicely put philaw, almost a definition of survivalism

 

[george]

Interesting thread. I feel like most people who have already responded about the paranoid survivalist groups in the States (though you’d probably find groups like that in most countries). Spending 50% of your time etc. seems pretty futile to me. Having said that, it doesn’t take much for us to be put in to a situation where all of the things we take for granted are gone and if we’re not prepared to deal with it we’re going to have problems.

Three weeks ago we were hit by some of the worst storms ever seen round here in NW Highlands – the wind topped 110mph and power and phone lines went down for almost a week. The main road in to the area was blocked for the best part of a day and my house was cut off by road for 5 days by fallen trees that were tangled in power lines. I was luckier than most in that I have wood stoves, I keep a couple of months of food, candles etc. in store and we could have been comfortable for as long as it took to get the power back on. It was an interesting period though. People were checking up on each other, they were mucking in with each other to get things cleared up, a friend did the rounds of people with freezers bringing his generator round once a day to keep freezer temps down. We all learned a few lessons about preparedness as a community, and who is prepared to help out. What I found strange was the number of people here who were all electric – electric cooker, lights heating etc. They were the ones who had the hardest time because they had all their eggs in one basket so to speak. For me that’s what preparedness is all about – avoiding having all your eggs in one basket. It’s not about TEOTWAWKI it’s just about making sure that you’ve got the basics the next time the power goes off.



george

 

[Pict]

The type of disruption that George mentioned happens often enough in the US that it is wise to be prepared to go it alone for a week or two and not have all of your eggs in one basket as he said.

I can remember at least two times that we were without basic utilities for more than a week. One was a hurricane that downed trees and power lines over a wide area. The other was an ice storm that did the same thing. After the ice storm we were without power for two and a half weeks. Most people just moved out of the area for a while.

It still makes sense to me to keep at least a weeks worth of food on hand and have the means to collect and treat water. You have to heat your home when the power goes off. After the ice storm in PA many poeple had their homes rigged up with generators. I still believe in being armed as well. In my opinion the only time it is best to be unarmed is when falling out of a boat.

Being prepared does not make you paranoid. There are limits though. The part of survivalism that really bothered me were the poeple who's lives seemed to be on hold until the great collapse of society. They really freaked me out. I'm too busy building a life that is worth preserving. They seemed to actually want it to happen so they could indulge their fantasy life.

Mac

 

[Great Pebble]

I dunno about TEOTWAWKI, but I certainly feel a lot less insecure about the world today than I did in my teens and early twenties when we faced a very real possibility of it happening. Both natural and man made disruptions seen to happen with almost monotonous (if it's not a contradiction in terms) regularity. And without wishing to delve into the realms of paranoia I believe that the people who are largely responsible for a good percentage of them happening in the first place are, indirectly, the people we're being told we should trust to look after us if we find ourselves afflicted by one of said happenings. Anyway, it gives you something to fill the boring hours and as long as you have fun doing whatever it is you think you ought to do (and you're not hurting anyone by doing it) get on with it....

 

[Kim]

From my limited knowledge of serious end of the world 'survivalists' I get the impression that most seem to be preparing to defend themselves against each other rather than anything else. Owning a few weapons doesn't mean you'll have the know how to start a fire when you need to, understand where best to source water, or how to fish. Plus, this also doesn't take into account how those pursuing their interest in survivalism will mentally cope with a world in chaos, and you can never pick who will survive and who not because it's not always those 'most prepared' who cope best, but then that's a subject we have spoken of before.

I figure you can't prepare fully for anything in life, but having some awareness of your environment, and some skills to fall back on can't hurt.

 

[bushbasher]

I don't think I am alone in saying that family and friends sometimes think of my interests as slightly eccentric and possibly even a bit on the wierd side. However when we do have a powercut, or other interruption to the normal flow of routine. Who do they come to for candles and flashlights? you guessed it, ME!.

Just an observation. :You_Rock_

 

[Great Pebble]

As with most things in life, the answer, if there is an answer lies somewhere in the middle. There's no point in being all roughty-toughty and able to look after yourself if you've, ultimately got nothing to look after, once you've eaten the last of those freeze-dried goodies you're in just as bad a situation as everyone else. Maybe even a bit behind the curve in adjusting to a new set of circumstances because you've been holding on to your old way of life (the one that has ended ). Equally, it's little use being able to prepare a meal for 50 out of what you can find in the local park if your next door neighbour, who's a bit of a big chap, doesn't like you and has 49 friends who want fed... If you see what I mean.

 

[Pict]

One of the things that bugged me about the heavily armed survivalists that I've met is that old saying "Once you have a hammer everything starts to look like a nail." The last people I want to be around are people that want to get into a gunfight.

Some statistics.

75% of the people that are running will not be hit by gunfire.

90% of the people who get behind bulletproof cover will not be hit by gunfire.

So the moral of the story is no matter how poorly armed you are RUN FOR COVER and you stand a pretty good chance. 99 44/100% of the poeple who don't get into gunfights don't get hit by gunfire. Stay out of gunfights altogether.

Once you load a guy up with an AK-47 and 150 rounds of ammo he will have a hard time grasping that concept. Mac

 

[TAHAWK]

That's it. Come all high and mighty.

But when the waves of paranoids come after you, you'll wish you were prepared.