I don't know, I think that taking a bit of emotional ownership of places can be a good thing. It's only selfish if you're trying to stop others enjoying and 'owning' it too.
Personal wilderness gone
- Thread starter BlueTrain
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I don't know, I think that taking a bit of emotional ownership of places can be a good thing. It's only selfish if you're trying to stop others enjoying and 'owning' it too.
Here in Wales we're a bit short of true expanses of wilderness unlike our American cousins so taking a benevolent interest in what small patches of woodland and other neglected areas we do have locally can reap tangible rewards. Ystrad woods just outside Carmarthen for example is pretty close to me and I'm often found walking my dog 'Oscar' there every few days. I know for instance that the best sweet chestnuts are on the North slope, the sap rises first in the Birch's on the South-West side, cramp balls only grow in two locations and of course where I can camp overnight with a fire without being noticed. Sadly it does get a few drunken nocturnal visitors more so especially over the summer months but thankfully they only use two easily accessible areas and today took out large bin bag of beer cans, pop bottles and other assorted cr#p including a brand new 'Regatta' 2 man dome tent & summer weight sleeping bag.
I did say there are tangible rewards to be had
I did say there are tangible rewards to be had
While I wasn't thinking of it in terms of ownership, I fully understand your point. In fact, I think I may have pointed out somewhere else on this forum the way certain users of public lands seem to think it belongs to them as a distinct group (as opposed to as an individual) to the exclusion of lesser beings. That may or may not imply a difference in how they treat the land but it might result in some hard feelings if one kind of user felt they had a higher claim or first priority on use. But when did "all" ever mean that.
Here I am reply in particular to Bishop, whose post appeared while I was writing my previous post. Well, your grace, it's like this. Wilderness is as much a state of mind as it is a state of the land. I wonder if Indians had the concept of wilderness as we think of it. Either way, there isn't as much wilderness in this country as you might think, although I'm using a conservative definition of wilderness. But I understand you have to get a permit to climb Mt. Everest these days, too.
If the dam works were to stop it failing then they were a necessary evil to preserve a wonderful environment for many years to come.
My personal wilderness is now littered with 1,500 plastic tubes and will soon have large areas of mud where a digger has been but in a few years I'm hoping each of those tubes will contain a large tree and the grass will have covered the spoil around my new lake.
My personal wilderness is now littered with 1,500 plastic tubes and will soon have large areas of mud where a digger has been but in a few years I'm hoping each of those tubes will contain a large tree and the grass will have covered the spoil around my new lake.
I thought I'd just add a couple more points about "wildernesses," such as they might be.
I grew up in a place where it was a simple matter to get in the car, which was a pickup truck, and go "down to the river," as we would say. I would go with my uncle and cousin and sometimes others. The places we went were unimproved, unofficial and wide open, at least in the sense you didn't need a permit and you went through no gates. That has changed somewhat but most of the places are still there in exactly the same condition they were in 60 years ago. These are places that were along an old (by American standards) road equally unchanged in the last 200 years but long since bypassed. In fact, some of my ancestors were the first settlers in that area. Part of the area is now a public hunting and fishing preserve, also called a wildlife management area. Different names are used in different jurisdictions but I don't know if there is a British equivalent. Anyway, parts of it are closed to traffic except for foot and horses. All of it is relatively difficult to get to, however, which naturally keeps down the number of visitors, so it's only the local folk who go there, provided they have at least a pickup truck.
There are places there which are perfect for long hikes, with no climbing and a good view. In contrast, the Applachian Trail, which I often mention, is relatively difficult and usually with no view of anything but trees. On the other hand, many 100% natural places are less than attractive as places to relax and while away your time. They can be muddy, smelly (especially the creeks and rivers), thick with poison ivy, briers and stickers and sometimes swarming with insects. But you get used to all that.
I grew up in a place where it was a simple matter to get in the car, which was a pickup truck, and go "down to the river," as we would say. I would go with my uncle and cousin and sometimes others. The places we went were unimproved, unofficial and wide open, at least in the sense you didn't need a permit and you went through no gates. That has changed somewhat but most of the places are still there in exactly the same condition they were in 60 years ago. These are places that were along an old (by American standards) road equally unchanged in the last 200 years but long since bypassed. In fact, some of my ancestors were the first settlers in that area. Part of the area is now a public hunting and fishing preserve, also called a wildlife management area. Different names are used in different jurisdictions but I don't know if there is a British equivalent. Anyway, parts of it are closed to traffic except for foot and horses. All of it is relatively difficult to get to, however, which naturally keeps down the number of visitors, so it's only the local folk who go there, provided they have at least a pickup truck.
There are places there which are perfect for long hikes, with no climbing and a good view. In contrast, the Applachian Trail, which I often mention, is relatively difficult and usually with no view of anything but trees. On the other hand, many 100% natural places are less than attractive as places to relax and while away your time. They can be muddy, smelly (especially the creeks and rivers), thick with poison ivy, briers and stickers and sometimes swarming with insects. But you get used to all that.
I recently browsed Google Earth for the area I lived in New Zealand for several years and I was very sad to find that the big area of bush that we ran wild in was now mostly a huge area of housing.
And so it goes on; population increases, more homes are built. Only a matter of time until we run out of something, just a matter of which first.
Hi Blue Train, When I lived in South London there was woodlands not far from where I lived and I always used to think this could be a place for me to practice Bushcraft, the problem being that the most undesirable people also occupied the woodland leaving all there trash including the odd stolen car and motorbike burnt out, a lot of the younger generation today don't have respect for the woodlands like a lot of my generation who grew up in the woods and enjoying nature, also as the years went on I noticed that the woodland was getting smaller due to a factory estate on the edge of the woods had bought quite a large area for development to extend the factory, after many years growing up in the London area I decided to move out with my family to the South Coast and now live in East Sussex where there is plenty of woodlands to enjoy!
I have always thought of buying my own piece of woodland which my family and freinds can enjoy, there are sites that sell woodlands all over the country, some can be a bit pricey depending on where it is situated. Anyway thats me said my bit so I will get off my orange box!
All the best
Backpacker
I have always thought of buying my own piece of woodland which my family and freinds can enjoy, there are sites that sell woodlands all over the country, some can be a bit pricey depending on where it is situated. Anyway thats me said my bit so I will get off my orange box!
All the best
Backpacker
Of course we do. The problem is that 98% of the population think that nature is the quaint old thing you visit once a year outside of the normal environment. That and the fact that it shouldn't encroach on their day to day living unless invited.
Here in Wales we're a bit short of true expanses of wilderness unlike our American cousins so taking a benevolent interest in what small patches of woodland and other neglected areas we do have locally can reap tangible rewards. Ystrad woods just outside Carmarthen for example is pretty close to me and I'm often found walking my dog 'Oscar' there every few days. I know for instance that the best sweet chestnuts are on the North slope, the sap rises first in the Birch's on the South-West side, cramp balls only grow in two locations and of course where I can camp overnight with a fire without being noticed. Sadly it does get a few drunken nocturnal visitors more so especially over the summer months but thankfully they only use two easily accessible areas and today took out large bin bag of beer cans, pop bottles and other assorted cr#p including a brand new 'Regatta' 2 man dome tent & summer weight sleeping bag.
I did say there are tangible rewards to be had
Too close to the art coll for my taste...
If you want to come up my end of the world (just beyond the top left hand corner of Carms) I am running Meets (by invite only) where I have perm on a farm that is actively increasing the tree cover and not other folk ever go to cause havoc!
Lots of trees being planted in this area - though lots of trees fell in the area during the storms!
I find it interesting the various views on the subject. Down here in Kent there are lots of small pockets of woodland and rough ground. One near by I have used for many years to supplement my diet. An area of hedge by the side of the cycle path netted me over 3lb of blackberries, in just 15 yards. A slightly longer walk netted me over 18lb of elderberries. The following spring the council came along and strimmed the brambles back to ground level, I've not had such a good harvest since. My forage walks have got longer.
Last Autumn I went out to pick some slows, to find that quite literally every slow tree within walking distance of the city had been picked bare upto a height of your typical human's reach. No slow gin for me from 2013. I suspect there is a commercial company near by who is abusing the right to the 4f's which I thought were only for personal use. I doubt that such an organisation has the permission of all the land owners involved.
This spring I went out with the GPS and found as many blackthorn trees as I could, in the hope that maybe this year I can get there first. I only want about 1kg per year to see me in sloe gin. You would think with acres upon acres and mile upon mile of hedge row, this would be possible...
So it's not just the people who make silly fires, and dump their lager cans that are abusing the wild, it's those who really should know better some times too.
Oh, and just remember, in the whole right to roam, the new access land in England and Wales does not come with the same right to the 4 F's that the rest of the countries public footpaths do.
J
Last Autumn I went out to pick some slows, to find that quite literally every slow tree within walking distance of the city had been picked bare upto a height of your typical human's reach. No slow gin for me from 2013. I suspect there is a commercial company near by who is abusing the right to the 4f's which I thought were only for personal use. I doubt that such an organisation has the permission of all the land owners involved.
This spring I went out with the GPS and found as many blackthorn trees as I could, in the hope that maybe this year I can get there first. I only want about 1kg per year to see me in sloe gin. You would think with acres upon acres and mile upon mile of hedge row, this would be possible...
So it's not just the people who make silly fires, and dump their lager cans that are abusing the wild, it's those who really should know better some times too.
Oh, and just remember, in the whole right to roam, the new access land in England and Wales does not come with the same right to the 4 F's that the rest of the countries public footpaths do.
J
A few years back I returned to Edinburgh having been away for years and with a few empty days I thought I'd revisit some of the places I'd explored as a kid. There was a section of the Water of Leith, once barely passable on the land that was filled with wild flowers and countless insects. Now it is a bland tarmac path with a view of the beer cans at the bottom of the river.
Things change I suppose, but I comfort myself with the knowledge that one day, maybe a long time from now, the trees will come back.
Things change I suppose, but I comfort myself with the knowledge that one day, maybe a long time from now, the trees will come back.
Trees are patient and rule this planet.
We flutter by like a swarm of May flies.
And the Yew just watches and waits.
Another 1000 years to chronicle the seasons.
We flutter by like a swarm of May flies.
And the Yew just watches and waits.
Another 1000 years to chronicle the seasons.
This is a really interesting thread. We see nature through the eyes of human prejudice often commenting on how pristine wilderness and the peace and quiet of unspoilt countryside makes us feel good while litter strewn industrial wastelands makes us feel bad, if we could see through the eyes of wildlife we would see a whole new perspective I believe. Wildlife is driven by survival while we are perhaps driven by aesthetics, that discarded fast food carton/high rise building/refuse tip/litter/ are considered unsightly and polluting to humans (most of us?) but to wildlife they become opportunities to be exploited such as easy food/nesting sites on buildings/roosting sites on pylons/etc (though sadly wildlife does not/cannot see the dangers of pollution as we do such as eating plastics etc which can lead to early death or problems). In many ways city living provide similar things for both humans and wildlife, convenience/easy food opportunities/shelter/overcrowding/extended hours, usually meaning work for the human but more daylight for wildlife due to street lighting/unnatural dangers from cars etc/. The urban sprawl has provided both new opportunities and dangers for wildlife, the large areas of unused land on roundabouts of motorways/embankments of roads and railways/sewage works/unused and unkempt industrial land/ all support a wealth of wildlife, these unkempt areas are often more abundant with wildlife than the local nature reserve, this is because they provide the one thing missing from many areas, the ground is not disturbed and remains the same year in year out, ground disturbance is as important as human disturbance (perhaps more important). I personally know of one such area right in the middle of the industrial west midlands where I have seen English grey partridges now rare in the countryside. On some farms you often see a corner left to itself overgrown with odd pieces of farmyard junk, these also become a wildlife haven too because they are left undisturbed for years, old tractors become nesting sites and rabbits take refuge under the rubbish. You only have to see how pigeons eat grit on the roads in the early morning to see how wildlife takes advantage of our human world, only last week while standing on Worcester train station I was watching pigeons pecking at the bricks on the platform to get salt, and pigeons attract peregrine falcons which nest on high-rise buildings, gardens attract red deer in the early hours in the middle of urban Brownhills travelling along the old canals. Wildlife is drawn to these city areas for an easier living like many people are, perhaps humans are the only animals that value aesthetics, and the only natural wilderness is that which is not managed in any way whatsoever, but leaving things alone is something we humans are not very good at.
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