Pay it Back.........

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Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
They may well have shot themselves in the foot, can they ever show their faces again at the leisure centre?


Geoff

With this breaking only a matter of days after the Services of Rememberance, I'm supprised that these individuals can dare to show their faces on this planet, let alone within their own community. They have shown noting but contempt towards every "believer in freedom" since the dawn of time.


I will have to stop reading this thread as every time I hit the "Post a reply" button, my blood starts to boil.

Ogri the trog
 

CheeseMonster

Forager
Dec 11, 2006
128
0
39
Shropshire
I'm absolutely appalled. I've just deleted a big rant because I know you guys all feel the same anyway so i'll save that for the person if they are ever named and shamed.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Red, I'll certainly buy something or make a donation either way, it's the very least I can do considering the sacrifices those guys have made.

Also going to spread the word on all the different forums I go on. As mentioned earlier seems everyone backs the soldiers but let's keep on spreading the word. The more people get ****** off about this the more chance there is of some people in power actually noticing and trying to appease the masses.
 

Cairodel

Nomad
Nov 15, 2004
254
4
71
Cairo, Egypt.
I believe I picked this up recently on here....
Maybe help if was spread (e-mailed) a bit more widely.. ie. "Pass it on.."???


Thank you Soldier

Have you stopped to thank a veteran today?
For the price of freedom they had to pay?
Did you gaze into those distant eyes?
Did you see the ghosts he can't deny?

Did you think a soldier's heart was made of steel?
Because he was trained to kill, he couldn't feel?
Did you see the guilt written on his face,
For the loss of life he can't replace?
Did you know he mourns the lives he couldn't save,
And walks with comrades in their grave?
Did you remember the boy with innocence lost?
Do you really know war's ultimate cost?

Have you felt the blast of artillery fire?
Do you have the courage it would require?
Have you stood in trenches consumed with fear?
Felt the enemies breath so very near?
Have you walked with God on a battleground?
Seen your brothers dead or dying all around?

Have you stopped to thank a vet today,
Or did you just turn and walk away?
From the pain he'll carry for the rest of his life,
Did you consider his family, his children, his wife?
That watch him suffer in silence each and every day,
As he's haunted by memories that don't go away?
Did you care that the soldier is still pulling guard?
That his heart, mind, and soul will forever be scarred?
Do you know how he suffers from ptsd?
Or that our precious freedom is never free?


Do you care that he still hears the blood curdling screams?
Or that he returns to the war each night in his dreams?
Have you felt the sorrow of a combat vet?
Or would you rather just forget?
That war has pierced his hardened heart,
And torn this soldier all apart?
Would you rather our heroes just fade away?

Or will you stop to thank a vet today?

By Chris Woolnough
 

TallMikeM

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 30, 2005
574
0
54
Hatherleigh, Devon
Tommy - Rudyard Kipling


I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
 

Ben_Hillwalker

Forager
Sep 19, 2005
133
0
54
Surrey
Folks,

Brace yourselves as I'm about to say things that you may not entirely like. However, bear with me on this one.

Bullying the disabled and treating them without respect is clearly unacceptable, whatever the circumstances of their disability. However, I would caution everyone against reading more into this story than is actually there.

I've read a few of the online articles about this incident (tabloid and broadsheet) and nowhere is it reported that the soliders were being treated badly because they were soldiers. They were being treated badly because the two (and the reports only mention two) other users were objecting to them apparently getting exclusive access to part of the pool for nothing. They may not even have known they were soliders as they wouldn't have been in uniform.

This seems to be more an example of the I've-paid-my-fee/taxes-type of small-mindedness rather than any kind of anti-soldier mentality. This is still very saddening, and as I mentioned at the beginning it is unacceptable to bully and harrass the disabled. However, please lets not compound one misunderstanding with another.

Having said all that, if any of you are inclinded to make a donation to a disabled soldier's charity then I certainly wont be objecting.
 

TallMikeM

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 30, 2005
574
0
54
Hatherleigh, Devon
this isn't the first time Hedley Court has fallen foul of the good burghers of Leatherhead. The MOD wanted to expand facilities there and applied for planning permission to do so. The neighbours of the centre complained as they were concerned about the extra numbers of family etc visiting the recuperating service personall and parking on the road outside their houses. I'll leave you to read into that what you will.
 

Cairodel

Nomad
Nov 15, 2004
254
4
71
Cairo, Egypt.
Ben, whether or not the "ladies" in question realised that they had been serving soldiers,
this disdain for treatment of the disabled is not acceptable from any part of a civilised
society. I could go on, but won't....
 

Mirius

Nomad
Jun 2, 2007
499
1
North Surrey
Thanks Ben for having the courage to stick you neck out there.

Personally I would have agreed with you there, except that it begs the question of how they knew that they weren't paying. That they knew there was no charge would most likely happen I suspect if they also knew who the soldiers were. And given that they were presumably locals and regular users of the pool it seems likely that they knew exactly who they were.

Even if they were 'only' complaining about them not getting every last part of what they felt they were entitled to, and had no further knowledge, it doesn't reduce my contempt at their lack of compassion.
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
No excuse, the women should have been thrown out of the country. I'd give them a crap pair of boots, combat clothing made by the cheapest bidder and one set of body armour to share, they chose who wears it. Then, they get a holiday to Helmand Province and get their bottom in the grass and some quality fun time with the Taliban. We'll see their perceptions shift pretty bloody quickly then.
 

Aragorn

Settler
Aug 20, 2006
880
2
50
Wrexham, North Wales
i have just read this entire post and can't believe it, or maybe in this sad sad world we live in today i can, i was once proud to be british, reading disgusting accounts like this just makes me ashamed, weather the men were soldiers or not, they are human beings who diserve to be treated with dignity and respect, the fact that they were soldiers, and indeed heroes as i class all of service men and women as that just, just sadens me more.
 

warthog1981

Native
Jun 3, 2004
1,840
76
43
Fife
i have just read this entire post and can't believe it, or maybe in this sad sad world we live in today i can, i was once proud to be british, reading disgusting accounts like this just makes me ashamed, weather the men were soldiers or not, they are human beings who diserve to be treated with dignity and respect, the fact that they were soldiers, and indeed heroes as i class all of service men and women as that just, just sadens me more.


I wholeheartedly agree
 

JohnC

Full Member
Jun 28, 2005
2,624
82
62
Edinburgh
I cannot understand the actions of those jeering and complaining.. I suppose I should be glad that I dont understand them, it is horrifying to imagine what it must have been like for the servicemen involved.
It can be difficult seeing a person who is scarred, some people may stare, some may turn away so not to stare, I see it in hospital, but that kind of reaction is unacceptable..
 

Ben_Hillwalker

Forager
Sep 19, 2005
133
0
54
Surrey
Even if they were 'only' complaining about them not getting every last part of what they felt they were entitled to, and had no further knowledge, it doesn't reduce my contempt at their lack of compassion.

Never said they weren't contemptable, Mirrius. I'm just cautioning everyone against jumping onto a bandwagon. Afterall, a bandwagon is just a mob with wheels.
 

stevesteve

Nomad
Dec 11, 2006
460
0
57
UK
I could not quite believe this when I read it. I am not ex-military but my uncle (a Naval officer at the time) served on SS Uganda in the Falklands and spent time with the wounded.

I think that the children were scared because of the parent's own ignorance and they were not explaining the situation to them.

I have two small children and I am sure that if they said "Dad what happened to that man?" I would explain that he had had an accident and that even though he had been injured, swimming was a brilliant way for him to excercise. They would accept that and their main emotion would be curiosity.

If I had known they were servicemen, I would have gone on to explain that they had been injured fighting for what they believed in. I strongly believe that my kids would be proud to share a pool with them and it would be as much as I could do to prevent them going over to talk to the service men to talk to them about it.

People :banghead:

Cheers,
Steve
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,962
Mercia
Steve,

Thank you - let them ask if they want to.

Please let me explain. The first time I was injured my face was cut up pretty badly - I am a "beardy" now to hide the scars. After coming out of hospital, frankly a little dazed and confused, I sat in a local park. A little girl was playing on the swings and ran over to her mum on seeing me. Her mum whispered in her ear and she ran over to me. She sat on my lap and asked if I "fell down". I explained I had and she said "heres a kiss from me and another from my mummy"

It really did make it all better. She was really curious and touched the stitches in my mouth and cheeks very tenderly. She asked if my eyes hurt (they were purple and the left one was stitched). I explained that they did and that the light hurt. She wanted to know if I would get better? I explained that I would although parts of my face wouldn't move quite properly any more.

As you say she was curious. That was okay - really. It was only later that I realised she was the first non medical person who had looked me in the eye and not been embarassed. It was truly lovely. I wish I knew who she was - I would love to send her a present today to thank her. This was over a quarter of a century ago now. She is still - what 3 or 4 (?) in my mind. I guess she has children of her own now. I hope they are as lovely as she was.


Red
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,136
2,874
66
Pembrokeshire
Hey Red
I did not realize that you too had facial probs!
I have Bells Palsey - thanks to a martial arts sparring session where one blow bruised the nerve, which swole up and crushed itself to death in a tunnel of bone - and the muscle structure of left side of my face does not work any more (I feel everything but can move very little) and I often get cramp in my neck from using these muscles to compensate.
Other probs include a reduced blink reaction, dribbling, runny nose, biting my lip/cheek when eating and more.
I still spend a lot of time in Am Dram, working with people face to face and have occassionally had some wierd looks from adults. The most honest reactions come from young kids - "Hey Mister, wots wrong with your face?" and I prefer this to the odd look , look away, look again, walk away I have had from adults.
I was never an oil painting even before my accident and the last time I took off the beard was when I was 16 - for an RAF aircrew selection - so my new look does not worry me at all but some peoples reaction (especially when it had just happened and was VERY obvious) was a bit annoying.
Kids God love em tend to accept, adults are the judgemental ones!
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,962
Mercia
Yeah mine is old news now John and not very visible - a mis-shapen lip and some odd grey "lines" in the beard over the scars. I can slur my words a little when I'm not concentrating - things like that. Nothing hugely visible now to be honest although if I get a dark tan in the summer I can look a bit "patchworky" ;)

It still reasserts itself in odd ways - I had to have surgery again this year to remove a septal spur which may have been related to the original injuries and some other "airway" stuff which again, might, or to be honest ,might not, relate back. I don't mind it - as you say I always think "well you can't polish poo anyway" :). I'm going grey more now so the beards sort of "sat and pepper" anyway. I can relate to the stiff neck though - right under the skull and down to the shoulders.

Funny though isn't it how things take you back - steve mentioning his kids would be curious just took me straight back to that little poppet :). I've got a few friends who are "differently able" (all of whom nearly wet themselves laughing at supidly politically correct terms like that). You reaction gells with all of theirs - if you want to know - ask - don't be embarassed. Actually I remember sitting with my blind friend once holding my sides as he mercilessly described all the things a lack of sight had caused - including a tin of stewing steak his girl friend was surprised to find him feeding his dog. He never enquired too closely where the dog food went :)

I'll be chuffed if I'll get all pious about these things - but people like those that kicked this thing off do amaze me - its almost as though they think nothing could ever happen to them!

ATB

Red
 

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