Paramo waterproof fabric types?

[Paul_B]

Just had a wet day with our kid's primary school residential. Paramo velez adventure light. Wet through a bit and up the sleeves. The latter is to be expected but not too impressed with the weather resistance of the light version of nikwax analogy fabric system.

So does anyone know what varieties there are and how much weatherproofing they offer? In a slow rain/drizzley day can you really expect all versions to work? Is it the fabric version or jacket design?

 

[nigelp]

I find my Velez light jacket to be more much, much waterproof than the Alta 2. The Velez smock made from the same fabric as the Alta 2 seems to be more rain resistant. The Velez light did 5/6 hours in the rain on Dartmoor and it was bone dry inside. My friend had a Velez smock and got quite wet, he is however a portly chap and must have stretched the fabric a bit!

 

[Paul_B]

Mine was wet over shoulders including where the rucksack straps aren't, chest, forearms and front near the lower hem. Even my original model alta worked better from mid 90s!

 

[Allans865]

I have a Helki jacket, a good few years old now.

It has kept me dry at the top of many munros in the mankiest of weather and I really can't fault it.

I purchased it second hand from fleabay a few years ago now, but it was immaculate when I received it. I have always washed and reproofed it with nikwax tekwash and nikwax reproof (?)

Can't speak for the newer garments, but the jacket I own is the ideal winter outer layer.

ATB,

Allan

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk

 

[nigelp]

Mine was wet over shoulders including where the rucksack straps aren't, chest, forearms and front near the lower hem. Even my original model alta worked better from mid 90s!

Next time I wash mine I’m going to do it by hand. I think it’s easy to leave residue in the machine and that may affect the performance? That said my Alta 2 had a zip replaced by Paramo and was washed by them and wasn’t that great even then!

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have a lite smock and an old Alta. I recall being told by Paramo that there is a difference, that it cannot be expected that the light are as weather proof as the standard weight, but that layering a windproof over the lite smock would more than equal the standard weight, which makes sense. That said, I have had that smock in some pretty heavy rain and long wet days and been dry, or at most had a little dampness, but its hard to know whether that was rain or me getting warm.

My experience has been that Paramo works best when it is clean. If you get it dirty, it tends to wet out. A friend really had trouble with his, said washing and proofing made no difference. I took it as a challenge, suspecting the problem. He was a prolific pipe smoker and many of his possessions have a coating of pipe tar. Techwash doesn't do much against pipe tar! So I washed it hard with real strong detergent and got what looked like an oil slick flow out in the bath tub. Two washes, very thorough rinse x2, reproof, and it was good to go.

Sweat has salt. Salt draws moisture. If you have sweated into the back, that could cause more wetting out.

 

[nigelp]

Base layers make a difference also. I used my lighter Velez on Dartmoor with the Ostro fleece underneath. I think the Ostro also washed and proofed acts as an additional pump layer and a barrier to damp. Paramo certainly works best if you are ‘moving’ a bit; if I’m doing courses that involve a lot of standing around then I will wear a Goretex type layer more often than not, especially when the weather warms and it’s too warm with Paramo on.

 

[Paul_B]

I was mostly moving but with 10 kids 7 to 9 yo top shepherd I wasn't moving fast. My view is the lite is only good for light drizzle or shorter rain showers that give you time to dry out. My original alta was heavier weight than even modern standard weight paramo and was dry even even in heavy, prolonged rain. That was the original paramo fabric and n not the v same as any current paramo options.

 

[Billy-o]

Has anyone had a go of Paramo's Velez Adventure trousers?

I am thinking about them for Autumn/Spring when it is cool but not so cold that I can wear the Enduros.

@nigelp - Has the Adventure smock continued to work well in the wet for you?

 

[Paul_B]

I have the velez light and it's had two years of use. It's my all year round waterproof. Wear it when raining in summer but mostly all the time when commuting at other times. It's orange but the lower back looks very much thinner and has picked up black colour from my commuting rucksack.

In the wet it's good enough for my short mixed mode commute but I don't rate it for all day in the rain or on off rain showers. OK for shorter shower spells with time to dry by wearing in between.

It's not as good as my 1990s paramo alta in prolonged rain. I've read reviews that the light analogy isn't fully performing like regular analogy. It does a job well though and it's a different fit to alta, cascada, std velez, etc. A more athletic fit like the velez evolution. I found it fitted my shoulders but the std velez did not.

 

[nigelp]

Has anyone had a go of Paramo's Velez Adventure trousers?

I am thinking about them for Autumn/Spring when it is cool but not so cold that I can wear the Enduros.

@nigelp - Has the Adventure smock continued to work well in the wet for you?

I have the smock in the standard fabric but have a Velez jacket in the lighter fabric. The lighter fabric works extremely well, sheds water and only very occasionally gets overwhelmed - I’ve worn it for hours on proper rain without issue.

I’ve owned the adventure trousers and have some older ones I use occasionally - I sold them on because the fabric is to slippery and the cut makes them hard to wear with a pack. The trousers I found tended to slip down below the waist line and it was a pain to stop and sort them out. I tried braces but the cut was wrong for me on the waist. The concept is great - you can just wear them and unzip them if too warm etc. I now wear some Montane trousers and water proof over trousers.

 

[nigelp]

I have the velez light and it's had two years of use. It's my all year round waterproof. Wear it when raining in summer but mostly all the time when commuting at other times. It's orange but the lower back looks very much thinner and has picked up black colour from my commuting rucksack.

In the wet it's good enough for my short mixed mode commute but I don't rate it for all day in the rain or on off rain showers. OK for shorter shower spells with time to dry by wearing in between.

It's not as good as my 1990s paramo alta in prolonged rain. I've read reviews that the light analogy isn't fully performing like regular analogy. It does a job well though and it's a different fit to alta, cascada, std velez, etc. A more athletic fit like the velez evolution. I found it fitted my shoulders but the std velez did not.

I’ve found the complete opposite. The older fabrics wet out more quickly and the newer light ones are better. I’m convinced the garment type and cut makes a difference. The jackets always seem to out perform smocks in my case. In any extreme weather I find my Event Rab jacket keeps me bone dry all day and is the one I use in mountains where I am out all day and not moving as much.

 

[Paul_B]

Everyone has their opinions and they're all right for them. The view I've read a few times is that the pump liner ultimately provides the resistance to prolonged rain. On the light versions the pump liner is thinner and lighter. As a result it has less material to resist the incoming rain while pumping out the sweat. It kinds of gets overwhelmed. I guess if you're not sweating or exerting yourself the sweat is less of an issue so combined with the rain the light system might not get overwhelmed.

The older versions had heavier and thicker pump liner. Ime it resisted rain and sweat better than my light velez.

 

[Billy-o]

Thanks .. that's great info

 

[SaraR]

Everyone has their opinions and they're all right for them. The view I've read a few times is that the pump liner ultimately provides the resistance to prolonged rain. On the light versions the pump liner is thinner and lighter. As a result it has less material to resist the incoming rain while pumping out the sweat. It kinds of gets overwhelmed. I guess if you're not sweating or exerting yourself the sweat is less of an issue so combined with the rain the light system might not get overwhelmed.

The older versions had heavier and thicker pump liner. Ime it resisted rain and sweat better than my light velez.

I've always suspected that you need to run hotter than I do to keep them dry in long spells of heavy rain.
Especially since I have less issues with them when hillwalking than when walking the dogs, as I usually get hot fast when walking uphill.

 

[SaraR]

Has anyone had a go of Paramo's Velez Adventure trousers?

I am thinking about them for Autumn/Spring when it is cool but not so cold that I can wear the Enduros.

@nigelp - Has the Adventure smock continued to work well in the wet for you?

They are good if they fit your body. Quite warm, but comfortable against the skin.
My main issues are that they are quite wide in the lower leg and catch the wind too much if out in strong winds, and that mine often ride up a little and dump water into the boots if I'm not careful.

 

[Billy-o]

That's mean trick; the water in the boots.

Thanks for the hints about the warmness, SaraR. It is interesting that they seem to ride up on some people and slip down on others.

 

[Paul_B]

I bought paramo trousers early in their existence. Literally the v
aspira smock and salopettes had just started to hit paramo main dealers. I bought the cascada trousers iirc which were the only other paramo trouser option to the salopettes. Somehow they fitted me at 6 foot 5 inches tall. I've really struggled to find outdoor trousers to fit but they did.

I work them over normal outdoor trousers in colder and cooler/wetter months. I stopped wearing them when I stopped wearing my annoying alta jacket. The no velcro design rule at the beginning meant poppers to hold the excess sleeve fabric back. It didn't so I ended up with baggy sleeves like 1700s fops might wear.

I didn't have waterproof trousers for a few years but a winter backpacking trip around languages lead to me carrying them just in case. I fell through the snow into a boggy tarn edge with water flooding up the two leg holes in the snow to my thigh. I was seriously freezing so got out of the wind and put my paramo trousers over the top of my wet trousers. 10 minutes later my legs felt dry and warm. I was warm all over except for my hands which took 90 minutes to defrost painfully in my spare, dry gloves. The paramo trousers actually pumped the water out of my highly wicking softshell trousers very quickly. Genuinely my trousers legs dried in 10 minutes. The paramo trousers were dry shortly after. They simply work well in winter!

As to fit, the website used to define the fit as regular and athletic. Athletic fit was slimmer. The site doesn't now but a top paramo retailer will advise on fit.

I think cascada trousers might be standard or what I call short or wide fit, no offence meant. I think the more mountaineering styles are slimmer or athletic fit. However some have baggier lower legs to fit over winter or high mountain boots or even ski mountaineering/skiing boots. For walkers this might mean excess fabric.

 

[Paul_B]

That's mean trick; the water in the boots.

Thanks for the hints about the warmness, SaraR. It is interesting that they seem to ride up on some people and slip down on others.

And don't forget that if you use a knee to get up a step it the ground is wet you'll get water forced through. In addition sitting on wet ground will force water through, same with snow. It isn't conventionally waterproof as in a barrier to water. It just pumps water out quicker than it let's it through. Sitting or kneeling overcomes the pump effect and kind of forces water through the wrong way.

 

[Aristotle]

I have had a Velez Adventure Light Smock for about 12 few years. It is very good for highly active activities in rain and snow. It wicks brilliantly. I have worn it in torrential driving rain, once memorably, in Iceland and it did keep the rain out surprisingly well, but my upper chest got a bit wet through the front zip.

Combined with a Montane Prism jacket underneath it works well in fairly cold weather too.

For less strenuous activities and standing around, a decent membrane jacket is more suitable than the Paramo Velez Light.