Opening a bushcraft / survival school in the UK ( hypothetically)

[johnboy]

Hi,

Firstly a bit of preamble / disclaimer.

I live in NZ and happily so I'm not intending to move back to the UK and open any form of business.

So why the question? Well I'm interested in the requirements for opening a business in the UK and specifically what qualifications and requirements are needed by the staff and or owner legally to operate. ( assuming an owner operator).

Back in 2007 there was a large accident here in NZ in which a number of school children and their teacher drown during a caynoning trip.

This accident happened at one of the larger outdoor centres and one which was a bit of an exemplar. So there is a significant shake up of the outdoor industry going on. It's similar to the shake up that happened after the Lyme bay tragedy in the UK.



I'm interested to understand what you legaally have to have in place for Bushcraft / survival type activities ( say a week end course) assuming the following:

1. Activity takes place in a woodland environment.
2. Activity is being delivered to a group over 18 yo.
3. Activity is undertaken on private land with permissions etc.
4. Activity is for commercial gain of the provider.

Intrested in your thoughts and feedback...

Cheers

John

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

Having worked with a bushcraft company and now a self employed instructor/demonstrator, I can tell you qualifications are just the tip of the iceberg!
The main problems are going to be in the red tape/legislation area.

I've found nearly all Insurance companies don't like the phrase "friction fire lighting"!
how much insurance should you take out?
I have £5,000,000 for public displays. (it's a curcus performer insurance company)

As we've seen there are some dodgy looking bushcraft/survival courses out there, chances are some are going to be ok but some will be very poor and bad news if it goes tit's-up!.

I would say for a person to start a business in bushcraft:
they may have been on a course and thought..."hey I can do that"...

they need firstly a lot of experience! (in good and bad weather).
you should have formal certificate proving you can look after yourself and others:
for example mountain leadership training
they need to know how to organise groups (you should be trained in this).
you need to be able to know what is a hazard/danger (you should be trained in this).
you need first aid training!
you also need to be aware of general health and safety, food hygiene,

on top of all that you need to be aware of rules and regs about fire, hunting, safe use of natrual materials (i.e dead bracken can be a carcinogen).

also loads of risk assessment questions like:
if the punters use knives, should they also wear gloves? if not why not (you need to know) and you need to have rules to cover your own back.

Do you allow punters to pick and cook stinging nettles? if not why not? should you force them to wear gloves? if they get stung is it a problem?

if someone falls and hurts themselves are you responsible for them? do you stop the course and take them to A&E? do you sit them down? do you send them home?

all of these things and many, many, more need to be serious consideration and need to be constantly updated.

for anyone considering going into the business, I strongly suggest you get in front of some people(you know) and do a few demo's!
Before you try to teach the general public and ask money for it!!

when the pressure is on it's a lot harder!
even after many years my friction fire-lighting my success rate is 99%
you need to know what to do and if it goes wrong (and it has occasionally).

no one wants to pay good money to see some Ray Mears wannabe fumble "friction fire lighting" over and over.

of course you could just sell yourself as an expert and do quite well, it's when something goes wrong that it gets serious!

 

[johnboy]

Hi Rappleby 2000,

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

I think we probably can all agree if you're thinking of instructing on a commercial basis then you need to have an idea of what you are doing

But what are the legal requirements?

Do you legally need to have insurance in place?
Do you legally need to have a F/A cert?
Do you legally need to have a 'safety' or leadership qualification such a Summer ML?
Do you need to legally produce a Risk Management plan?

What legislation controls commercial outdoor provision for over 18's in the UK?

Any ideas...

Cheers

John

 

[Andy BB]

My best guess is that you don't actually "need" any of that to set up a business. However, it's when something goes wrong that you will then become liable to all sorts of action, both legal and civil, and you'll wish that you'd had insurance to cover you!

And its when you try to get insurance that you'll have to start providing the answers to the difficult questions like competence, medical/fist-aid expertise etc etc etc. And of course, providing public displays it'll be almost inevitable that you'll be asked for copies of your insurance.

But set up on your own few acres, post a few ads in the relevant magazines, and any Tom, Dick or Harry can start his own survival training/bushcraft course. It's possible that the local authority might sent round a Health and Safety Officer to see whats going on, but the odds are probably against it.

 

[bigandy]

not 100% but think legally all you would need is employee insurance(assuming you have some)!!!there isnt much legislation only suggestions. i wait to be corrected as not 100% on the survival/bushcraft side. there will be allsorts of good practice but unless there is a nationally recognised body no legislation is enforceable

 

[PRKL]

I think its same thing as here...to be ok in occupation like that you need to have good incurances and you must have some certificates to show,if youre planning to do any canoe stuff,rappeling etc.In my studies we must do a script,a plan about these factors,to get passed on as qualified wilderness guide,as most of us start our own company/service.

 

[wattsy]

you definately need insurance to do anything with the public its not worth the risk of not having it. i'm insured for £3 million just to do archery lessons

 

[Laurentius]

Every business which deals with the public (and try thinking of one that does not) requires public liability insurance, and the basic rules of health and safety are essential to ensure no one gets injured, even as a photographer, for instance somebody can trip over your tripod, or the lighting set up can cause a fire. For most things there are specialist insurance companies.

There are also things to be considered such as business insurance on the car as carrying equipment to and from the place of work is no longer considered social domestic or pleasure.

Once you cross the line between doing something as a hobby and doing it for gain, it becomes a whole new ball game.

 

[locum76]

Hi Rappleby 2000,

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

I think we probably can all agree if you're thinking of instructing on a commercial basis then you need to have an idea of what you are doing

But what are the legal requirements?

Do you legally need to have insurance in place?
Do you legally need to have a F/A cert?
Do you legally need to have a 'safety' or leadership qualification such a Summer ML?
Do you need to legally produce a Risk Management plan?

What legislation controls commercial outdoor provision for over 18's in the UK?

Any ideas...

Cheers

John

I don't run a bushcraft school for obvious reasons such as I am rubbish at it. I do, however, run team challenges at the farm for large groups from corporates and the like. For the gardening activities we get them to take part in all of the above are absolute essential elements of any risk assessment. You must also have PLI for any event involving members of the public. We even have to have £5 million for farmers market stalls.

If you do get a school up and running It might be worth considering corporate team challenges/ away days as a source of custom. They can be especially lucrative once you bolt on extras like food, accomodation and 'team building'. They are the most pernickity for risk assessment but if you do those well dealing with Joe Bloggs will be a doddle.

 

[PRKL]

hygiene pass,first aid 1&2,climbing instructor pass,kayaking / canoeing instructors pass,what else.....

 

[timboggle]

Aye John, hope you're well mate.

As someone who has actually set up and run a bushcraft Survival company in the UK (as well as other countries) here's the pointers on what you are legally required to do.

1.Register your new business
Decide whether you need to notify the Health and Safety Executive or your local authority about your business and where necessary, do so.

2.Take out Employer's Liability Compulsory Insurance
Employer's Liability Compulsory Insurance covers you against claims from employees who are injured or become ill as a result of their work.

3.Appoint a competent person
The law says you must appoint a competent person to help you meet your health and safety duties. This does not have to be an external consultant.

4.Write your health and safety policy
Your health and safety policy sets out the arrangements you have put in place for managing health and safety in your business. It is a unique document that says who does what, when and how.

5.Assess the risks
Decide what could harm people and what precautions to take. This is your risk assessment. You must act on the findings of your risk assessment, by putting sensible controls in place to prevent accidents and ill health and making sure they are followed.

6.Provide basic welfare facilities
You must provide a safe and healthy environment for all your employees. This includes toilets, washing facilities and drinking water, and appropriate lighting and temperature.

7.Provide free health and safety training and supervision
Everyone who works for you, including self-employed people, needs to know how to work safely and without risks to health. So you need to train them and supervise their work.

8.Consult your workers
Consultation means discussing health and safety with your workers allowing them to raise concerns and influence decisions.

9.Display the health and safety law poster
This is required by law. The poster includes basic health and safety information and lets people know who is responsible for health and safety in your workplace. Or you can give workers a leaflet.

10.Understand RIDDOR reporting procedures
The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (RIDDOR), require you to report work-related accidents, diseases and near-miss incidents. Make sure you know how to report, even if you never need to.

11.Keep up to date
You can follow the news in your sector through e-bulletins, news feeds, podcasts and texts to your mobile.

Right, thats the legal stuff.

Qualifications ??, you'll find the majority of survival bushcraft course providers in the UK have no nationally recognised qualifications to 'instruct' or 'lead' groups in the outdoors and very few would have had any 'experience' of doing so when they set up.

Just my tuppence worth

 

[PRKL]

timboggle,


here you unfortunately,nowadays gotta have all sorts of certifcates to show that you really are competent to take paying customers to rivers and rocks with you.it might be different there but here its like this.

 

[timboggle]

timboggle,


here you unfortunately,nowadays gotta have all sorts of certifcates to show that you really are competent to take paying customers to rivers and rocks with you.it might be different there but here its like this.

Things are differant in the UK, when dealing with under 18's (Young People), it's much tighter controlled, but I've stuck to the remit of John's question which referred to over 18's in the UK.

ATB

 

[PRKL]

Things are differant in the UK, when dealing with under 18's (Young People), it's much tighter controlled, but I've stuck to the remit of John's question which referred to over 18's in the UK.

ATB

yeah i realise that,sorry

 

[johnboy]

Thanks for the replies...

Timboggle... Great answer from someone who's had the experience.. Thanks.

Yep I kept the question to folk over 18 as there is a whole bunch of legislation aimed at young people.. I'm well up to speed with that.

It seems the 2 main factors are meeting your requirements under the HSE legislation and having adequate PLI in place..
Other than that it's pretty much open season..

If you're operating in a National Park do the National Park authority have any specific requirements to be met ( apart from not damaging the place)??

Cheers

John

 

[Hangman]

National Trust and Forestry Commission both have thier own safety systems in place, they have thier own rules and regs and will also have thier own site specific emergency plans that any organisation working / operating on thier land will need to be aware of and co-ordinate with.