One year life in a tent?

[blacktimberwolf]

Excellent post there ged, some very good points raised.

 

[preacherman]

Yes, it does.

It might be helpful to know a bit more about you. Your English is very good but somehow I think you are not native to Britain. How old are you and your friend? Are you male or female? How much time have you spent camping and/or living in temporary shelters? What do you know about weather systems?

If your friend has so little life expectancy I wonder if a camp site in Cornwall is the ideal place to spend the next year. You probably haven't picked the best country in the world to do something like this, have you considered going somewhere with a milder climate? If your friend does not have a strong constitution, I would worry that her life might be significantly shortened if she had to spend an English winter in a tent. Others have mentioned that there might be limits on the length of time that you can stay at a camp site. Some of those limits are laid down by English law. The local government has obligations to ensure that people in its care are safe and healthy. A lot of the rules and regulations about living anywhere in England are designed to avoid many problems which you will encounter if you spend a year living in a tent. A comfortable environment for living does not just happen. It has to be made to happen. Things like clean water, places to prepare and cook food, dry bedding, safe sanitation and the disposal of refuse should not be taken for granted. It is almost impossible to keep everything dry when living in a tent in the UK in the winter. It isn't always easy in the summer.

When someone suggested a caravan, you said "We thought about a caravan but I someho find them rather repellent?" You did not say what your friend thought about them. That worries me. Does your friend like these ideas as much as you do?

The area that you are living in does sometimes have bad weather. For more than ten years I had a house in Plymouth and kept a boat on the coast, usually between the Tamar and Helford River. I miss the area quite a lot but I do not miss the weather there at all. I have lived (not just holidayed) in caravans for many years. My feeling is that for a year, a caravan would be a much more realistic option than a tent, even if you only use it as sleeping quarters and to shelter from very bad weather. You can put an awning or tarpaulins (or both) on a caravan, which increases the living space a great deal and in my opinion greatly adds to the habitability. If a caravan is out of the question then a van, the larger the better, might be an alternative for storage with a very little security and for emergency shelter. You can expect all sorts of things to be stolen if you leave them in a tent for a year. Even locked in a van they will not be particularly safe.

Any fabric will suffer badly from attack by sunlight and it is always at the mercy of the wind. If you buy a new tent, tarpaulin, awning or fabric shelter of good quality it might survive a year of sunlight or it might not. You need to check how the fabrics will perform with the manufacturer (NOT with the person who sells it to you, because they will most probably lie). Any fabric structure can be destroyed by the wind in a few minutes. The Cornish coast can see large storms which can last for days. If you only have a tent for shelter you will need to have an emergency plan in case the tent is destroyed by a storm. If you have an awning or tarpaulin on a caravan you need to be able to take it down to prevent its destruction by the weather. Obviously in any case you need to know about the weather. That means at the very least listening to the forecasts on the radio. It will help to learn about the typical weather systems that are experienced in the UK, and if you can understand the shipping forecasts, listen to them regularly (several times per day) and learn to use the information that will be a big help in your own weather forecasting.

I've a bit of experience of living in a tent for more than a wkd and what Ged says is bang on. You have mentioned that you can't afford certain tents or vans etc. but work out the saving in rent that you will make and use that money to buy the best on the market ... by best I don't necessarily mean most expensive but most suitable for UK weather all year round. Internal storage will have to be vermin proof unless you won't mind sharing your food with the local wildlife ... being able to stand up is essential ...

I did link to a thread earlier but it was the wrong one so I've removed it. Once I find the right one I will post it up. It was from somebody who has lived like you want to but for the life of me I can't remember where or when I read it ... maybe someone else on here remembers a thread about long term camping in the UK.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Andrew

 

[Andy BB]

How about a compromise? Dandy trailer tents - unlike all others as far as I'm aware - have a plastic roof and sidewalls. The roof is insulated , and often you can find the sidewalls insulated too. These things go on for decades - I've seen 40-year-old ones still totally waterproof on camp-sites, and I've had several myself. On one occasion my family (including 3 young kids)holidayed 2 weeks over Cristmas in the mountains in Germany in one - -12C in the daytime and -20C at night and we were comfortable. Normally find several on ebay (look for winterised ones with underfloor gas heating and insulated sidewalls). They tow easily behind even small cars, and are more secure than tents or canvas trailer-tents (but obviously a determined theif will get into it).

 

[sandbender]

"...My friend and me are thinking of living on a camping site between these two towns for the whole year. Now, I have looked into some different tents and we are thinking that a bell tent might be the right choice but I would like to hear your opinions. Can the bell tent stand a cornish fall/winter? And I've read alot about packing these tents away in the right way so they don't get mouldy but what is the case if it is up for a whole year?..."o

Your biggest problem will be finding somewhere that allows you to camp for an entire year, however if you do find somewhere I'd suggest that you put up a 'bender'.

Materials are cheap, lots of space, you can open both ends to air the place out. There are a few sites that describe putting together stoves from 'found' objects and a stove will help you survive a Cornish winter. That said you will burn a great deal of fuel over the winter months and unless your future landlord is providing you with 'cheap' firewood the expense of that fuel will make a winter stay very expensive.

If your friend suffers from asthma the particulate from a wood stove will not be good for her, good ventilation will be important along with keeping the interior of the shelter clean and dry. Tricky I'd think, good luck.

More on 'benders' here.

http://www.enslin.com/rae/gypsy/bender.htm

 

[myotis]

Hello there,
I am brandnew here and have not amazingly much experience with tents so I guess I wil be more of a listener

However, I live in Newquay, Cornwall but will have to move to Plymouth soon. My friend and me are thinking of living on a camping site between these two towns for the whole year. Now, I have looked into some different tents and we are thinking that a bell tent might be the right choice but I would like to hear your opinions. Can the bell tent stand a cornish fall/winter? And I've read alot about packing these tents away in the right way so they don't get mouldy but what is the case if it is up for a whole year?

I hope you can share some of your experience, and any additional advice is very muh appreciated, thank you

You may be interested in this thread:

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/fo...community-of-Tentipis&highlight=living+canvas

Graham

 

[Tengu]

If your friend has weak lungs a wood stove would not be a good idea...But she will need to be kept warm in winter!

However in the summer I rather suspect the outdoor life will be benificial. Probably better than being in a double glazed house.

She must have plenty of warm bedding at night. (I like natural materials but I would be doubtful as to the advisability of those for an Asthmatic; My late fathers wife (Who was asthmatic with leaky lungs due to an infection...It eventualy killed her...You are going to have to have a back up plan if she `does` get sick...And to keep an eye on her liver and kidney functions, as they are a sure sign that not enough oxygen is getting in the blood.) did not get on with them.)

As long as she is warm when she needs it. (and in this country, that means most summers nights too) she should be ok. Plenty of hot food and drinks too.

I rather think an `insulated` caravan would be best. You can have an awning for warm days

Do gas stoves give off fumes? (probably not if well maintained.)

 

[Aufdemweghinaus]

Paul_B, thank you for taking the time to go into so much detail, much appreciated

Hodoo, thank you, I will keep that in mind

Ged, I am 23, female and my friend is 26, female as well. We have spend a fair amount of time together and are both people that are able to live in tiny spaces with other people without getting annoyed. I have done camping in different situations before and so has my friend. She has also lived in a garden shed for a while. We are both german though I do not know how that is important. I have lived here for two years, my friend for one but has lived here before and she has due to her studies knowledge about weather conditions.

We can not go anywhere else because we are students and we don't want to go somewhere else. As I have said earlier the campsites are something that we still need to check. I will not just move into a tent and put everything on one card without planning and minimizing every risk as much as possible. I may be young and unexperienced but that does not mean I am careless.
The reason why we want to stay at a camp site is because we think, if available, that that would solve the issue of sanatory facilities etc. We are aware that this is not gonna be super easy and we aware of moisture, bugs etc.

While I appreciate your concern it was actually my friend who came up with this idea and is in it with all her heart. I have talked to her about my worries regarding her illness and condition and capability as well. But she says she can handle it, it shouldn't be a problem and she wants to do it. While I am still concerned there is nothing left for me but to trust her.

And, yes, my friend has the same opinion on the caravan. While, as I said, I understand your concern I don't know what kind of person would drag their ill friend to live in a tent for a year in cornish weather against their will, however, I am not like that and I find this rather harsh. She is pushing this more than I am and I am trying to support her.

I understand and appreciate the neccessity of a backup and emergency shelter, while she still doe snot want a caravan we are currently discussing further options.

I completely agree on your advice about knowing the resistance of the fabric which is the reason why I am here. Because an intention to gain knowledge is fair and well but who to talk to? becaus ethe people in shops will lie. I joined this forum hoping that somebody might have done something similiar before and might be helpful. Do you actually think the manufactures ill be honest about their product? Because I am not sure about that...

Thank you for taking the time and give so much advice

 

[mountainm]

Take a look on eBay for a big canvas army mess tent. Then pitch another cheaper tent inside.

 

[Aufdemweghinaus]

Ric_uk3, we have actually thought about the cotton frame tents before but are they capable of dealing with this weather?

Andrew, we were never about to make the mistake of going for the cheapest possibility. Our plan is, indeed, what you said to pay a fair and reasonably high price for a tent that will suit our purposes. But this is the reason why I am here. To find out whick one is the most suitable, and in general what options we have.

We are aware that we need a fair share of storage options of different kinds for clothes, bedding, food, etc. e.g. waterproof, lockable etc.
Shame about the thread, that ould've been exactly what I came here for...
However, thank you for your advice

Andy_BB, - thank you, I will have a look into it.

Sandbender, - why do you think a bender is particularly suitable? These points that you mentioned were the reason why we ended up at the bell tents because apparently they have a waterproof fingerprint which can be attached to the walls and therefore raised a bit above the ground and furthermore the possibility to include and oven with adequate ventilation while it is aslo possible to roll up the walls. But I still don't kno hat would be the best.

My friend says when she lived in the gardenshed she made her own little oven out of bricks etc. and therefore should be fine with it...

In the town where my friend studies there's a place that sells firewood for a reasonable and affordable price, so that should not be a problem either, thank you

 

[Aufdemweghinaus]

Thank you, Myotis. much appreciated, I will take some time to look at it

Tengu, yes, we think the summer climate should be benefical too. I have talked to her about problems with cold temperature/ air and she said she a sleeping bag that can deal with incredibly cold temperatures and a lot of suitable clothing and that the cold temperature is not the problem but the cold air whick should be finde with scarves (she has also camped in Cornwall before when the weather was not amazing so I guess she knows what she is talking about...)

The possibility of maybe electricity to prepare hot drinks etc. is one of the reasons why we want a campsite but we do also have some camping supplies for cooking

Mountainm, - you know, that might be the idea, I will have a thought about that, thank you

 

[Miniwhisk]

Bell tent sounds lovely. Do make sure you get yourself a little pip squeak stove to keep you warm and dry during Winter. Condensation (no escaping it) will not dry out in colder conditions. Once your clothes and bedding are damp it could be miserable. A nice little stove will keep the bell tent dry as a bone for you.

 

[ged]

...I have done camping in different situations before and so has my friend. She has also lived in a garden shed for a while. We are both german though I do not know how that is important...

Not being English only matters to the extent that you might not have learned about some of the systems we have here. Things like local government, the legal and justice systems, the health service. Of course being foreign females might also have numerous advantages, but this isn't the right thread to go into that.

... We are aware that this is not gonna be super easy ...

Just so long as you are aware of that.

... it was actually my friend who came up with this idea and is in it with all her heart. I have talked to her about my worries regarding her illness and condition and capability as well. But she says she can handle it, it shouldn't be a problem and she wants to do it. While I am still concerned there is nothing left for me but to trust her. ... I understand your concern I don't know what kind of person would drag their ill friend to live in a tent for a year in cornish weather against their will, however, I am not like that and I find this rather harsh.

That makes me a lot more comfortable, at least from that point of view. It was not my intention to offend you, but it was my intention to be realistic and to ask the questions I feel the need to ask, even if they do sound harsh.

... I joined this forum hoping that somebody might have done something similiar before and might be helpful.

I hope and believe that we are being helpful. Many people dream up what are, frankly, unrealistic schemes. They dive into them, badly prepared, with inadequate background knowledge and no plans for emergencies -- or even for when things deviate slightly from the ideal in their dream. When the situation is examined carefully, they often had little chance of fulfilling the dream. It sometimes turns into a nightmare. Nobody here wants to see that happen to you. I have spent many years in caravans and thousands of days and nights under canvas in all weathers. I am only too well aware of how hard it is to be comfortable in a temporary shelter in bad weather. In the UK, bad weather can go on for weeks. I do not want you to find all this out when it is too late to do anything about it.

Do you actually think the manufactures will be honest about their product?

Yes, in my experience manufacturers are usually quite honest about their products. They generally do not have the same immediate link to the sale as the staff in the average outdoor shop, and they will also know their product very much better than someone who has dozens of similar products for sale. Most shop sales staff will have no idea even what materials are used in a tent, never mind how those materials behave on exposure to thousands of hours of ultra-violet from the sun. It might be worth considering a sacrificial shade over the tent itself simply to protect the tent fabric by absorbing the sun's rays.

If you are determined to do this, then at least you have a chance of starting at the right time of year. If you spend some time in a tent with your friend in summer and autumn then as the weather starts to deteriorate you will start to get a better idea of what it will be like when the weather is bad. You might change your minds about a caravan and use one just in the worst of the winter. In the winter, there are hundreds of empty static holiday caravans and someone might even want to pay you to look after one or two of them.

 

[Tengu]

Do you want me to see if I can find a canvas frame tent?

You can pick them up quite cheaply if you know where to look. (Brand new they cost a fortune.)

I holiday your area quite a lot, I could deliver it. (good excuse for a trip out.)

 

[v-ness]

There might be alternate options.

Have you heard of the WOOFer's? An organisation that offers rooms and often food in exchange for help on an organic farm. IIRRC there are quite a lot down your way.
[URL="http://www.wwoof.org.uk/join_wwoof]

Although the offer is usually for a shorter period of time, you might be able to find a room and board over the winter on an organic farm near you. Then you'd only have to spent spring, summer and autumn in a tent.

Good Luck
Ness

 

[sandbender]

"...Sandbender, - why do you think a bender is particularly suitable? These points that you mentioned were the reason why we ended up at the bell tents because apparently they have a waterproof fingerprint which can be attached to the walls and therefore raised a bit above the ground and furthermore the possibility to include and oven with adequate ventilation while it is aslo possible to roll up the walls. ..."

It is a tent that was/is in use by people living under canvas year round in the UK, so a tried and tested design, depending on how large and complex your set up would be you may be able to raise the walls and tie them at height to help air things out.

There are some quite pretty benders in use out there, they needn't be particularly squalid. Look on the internet for ideas.

My wife and I spent the better part of a Scottish Winter and Spring living in a Lavvu and know that your biggest problem will be both the cold and damp, humans are damp sweaty creatures and not well suited to living in unventilated spaces.

Additionally, finding a place where you will be able to set up for such a prolonged time will be difficult, start that search now, there are legal limitations even if you have the landowners permission.

 

[Aufdemweghinaus]

Miniwhisk, - definitely, nothing goes without a stove But do you actually have experience with a bell tent?

Ged, well since we have spent some time here we are aware of the often rough weather conditions. Yeah several people have said there are legal borders that could be a problem. I tried to have a look into the law but unfortunately could only really find 'Wild camping' which wouldn't concern us because we would need a campsite. However, I have contacted the National Trust for Devon and Cornwall, I think they might be helpful with that

I am very aware of that, yes. I am a very realistic person and while I am determined I am not too stubborn to admit defeat when it is neccessary. I made a list of things regarding the camping that need to be sorted and checked and told my friend that only if all of these points work out is it possible to make the move. I am one of these people that needs to plan out things in detail and also make plans for possible unexpected situations. While it i sgood to be spontaneous it would be rather stupid to just jump into this, but I see where you are coming from

As I said I fully understand your concern but if somebody would actually act so incredibly selfishly it could easily turn into something that could almost be classed as murder. I am sure you did not mean to offend me and I appreciate that people are looking out for each other but be assured I'm pretty decent and empathic

Oh, yes of course you have all been very lovely and helpful, I didn't mean it like that. I know what you mean, a lot of people don't understand the neccessity of adequate information and planning. Nature is unpredictable, life is unpredictable so it is important to always have several options and be aware that usually nothing works out like you want it to. I understand and appreciate what you are doing and while we will not know how well this year would work out until we have tried it we have as I said lived here for some years, I for example have experienced two winters with snow here and a number of other moody weather conditions in this country I would not move out there unprepared and putting myself or my friend into risk that could be avoided. e only have one life and that is very fragile and while I ant to fill it with good experiences there is no need risk an early end.

Ahhh I see, well that is very good to know, I will contact the manufactures and ask them what they think their product can handle. That is an amazing advice, thank you.

Yes, the last section is exactly what I think. The start in the warmer month give us the opportunity to get used to the living condition and get too know our situation even better which will be helpful in the harder times. And yes, since most of the camping sites rent out caravans this is our backup plan which should be reasonably easy to carry out because we would be right at the source. Furthermore if laws and campsite conditions allow our plan we will try to look for a campsite that has a laundrette as well (there are quite a few that do) which would give us the luxury of putting essential items that have become too wet into the tumbledryer. But I think the little stove should help with that as well.

Can you tell me more about the 'empty static caravan'-thing, please?

 

[Aufdemweghinaus]

Tengu, that is a very lovely offer, thank you. Since things are still not sure I might come back to you about that

Ness, thank you, I am aware of organic farms but I am not sure we would be able to do this since we are students. It's alays been a thought that has tempted me though

Sandbender, - the bender tent seems to be a rather simple shelter and maybe more for temporary stays? Also I am not sure that I trust my carpentry skills to such an extend that I would face the moody cornish weather with it

Yeah, if we go for the bell tent we hope that the stove and the roll-up-walls will be able to help us with ventilation and the avoidance of excessive dampness.

Yeah the laws are the biggest problem at the moment but I am at it and hopefully will find all the informtion soon to know what is going on

 

[Tengu]

Ness`s idea is a very good one. I have a friend with an Organic farm; he has people in to help from all over the world.

 

[v-ness]

You dont always help full time on the Woofer farms.
As there are 2 of you I'm sure you could come to an understanding with the owners and mainly help at the weekends for a few hours or before or after going to Uni. Remember there is often a bit less work on the farms in the winter anyways, so fitting it around your studies should be achievable. And you'd have a definite dry roof over your head in the worst months.

Good Luck
Ness

 

[ged]

... Can you tell me more about the 'empty static caravan'-thing, please?

This is more about negotiation and dealing with people than it is about 'bushcraft' (whatever that is).

As you have said, many camp site owners rent spaces both for tents and for the kind of caravan which people tow behind their cars. In addition, the camp site owners often have things that we call 'static' caravans. These are still more or less temporary shelters, but they are bigger than the caravans which you see being towed around behind cars. They are not allowed by law to be towed by a car. They have to be transported on big lorries, sometimes in several pieces, and assembled on the site. Once on the site they usually stay there for their entire lives. Some static caravans are used as permanent accommodation. Some are only used by holidaymakers as cheap accommodation in the milder seasons of the year. In the winter, or 'off season', many static caravans will be empty for several months, because there is much less demand for holiday accommodation in the winter than there is in the summer. It may be difficult for the owners to keep these static caravans in good condition during the winter, and you might be able to come to some arrangement with a site owner where you use a caravan (or several caravans) for a time just to 'air' it (or them) and make sure that it is (or they are) kept in good condition. If you are able to negotiate with the campsite owners you may find that you could get a very much better deal than the normal rent, it is possible even that you could get the site owner to pay you for some services. If I were a site owner my main concern would be that someone offering to help in this way would not cause more problems than they would solve, so you would need to think carefully about how you would present your case and what services you could offer. The water supply may not be reliable in winter because of frost, so you may find that you have to carry all your water in containers. This is not usually a problem for potable (drinking) water, but for things like showers and flushing toilets it can be an issue. Flushing a toilet once normally uses nine litres of water.

Of course there may be legal restrictions on what the site owner is permitted to do, for example a single occupation of a caravan may have a time limit of for example 28 days. If you move from one caravan to another you may be able to avoid this kind of legal restriction but you would need to be careful not to contravene the law. Or if you did contravene the law, not that I could condone anything like that, you would need to avoid anyone finding out about it.