One for the military chaps!

[Wilderbeast]

hey guys,

Just wanted to ask a couple of questions about a few items of military kit!

1) What's the point in a magazine dump pouch? I believe they are easier to get mags into quickly. Now I've used assault vests and I've experienced this, but surely there would be a call for keeping mags in one in the first place, if it's quicker to put em in it should be quicker to pull em out!?

2) Why don't the UK do the thing where you strap more than one magazine onto another, so the change over is quicker because you don't have to look in the pouch in the first place!

Be really grateful for some answers, the second one's been bugging me for a while!
Cheers
Will

 

[TallMikeM]

dunno 'bout the first point (after my time I suspect) but you don't do the first cos it's prone to getting dirt in the magazine. I would also imagine it places a strain on the magazine release catch, with all that extra weight.

 

[lub0]

I'm not military but anyhow.
In a firefight, especially close quarters, it is far far quicker to dump a mag in to a wide-mouthed drop-leg pouch than it is to put them back in to your dedicated mag pouches.

I would imagine taping two mags together might lead to reliability issues with the magazine feed with the A2 rifle.

 

[Twodogs]

Dump pouchs are for when in a firefight you dont have time to replace you mag in the correct pouch and need to put it somewhere to reload later ,
taped mags are bad drills as the exposed mag collects dirt and dust causing stoppages .
Twodogs

 

[HillBill]

And the reason mags are kept in mag pouches is that when you get one out in a firefight its the right way up and you dont lose precious seconds having to figure which way it goes. When the adrenilines pumping things like this do make a difference. Its all about speed of reload. It can make the difference between life and death. You have to be in that position to fully appreciate it though.

 

[sapper1]

Spot on Cliff.

 

[sapper1]

And you too Mark

 

[HillBill]

What you have to remember will is that in a proper firefight your not going to be looking at your rifle and pouches all the reloading happens instinctually due to all the drills you have done, your eyes are always looking for potential dangers, targets or changes in the flow of the engagement things are set up with that in mind.

 

[Wilderbeast]

cheers lads!

One further question!there's been a lot of talk about problems with the kit the boys are using, do you think this is because the kit issued is bad, or that there just isn't enough of it??

Bearing that in mind I guess, did you guys tend to buy a lot of your own kit, or stick with the stuff you were issued?

 

[MartinK9]

A bit of both to be honest, in the 80's and early 90's there was a wide gulf between issued kit and what was available on the market. Nowadays that gap has closed significantly.

 

[Peter_t]

just not enough of it, the british army has some of the best kit in the world. im not military but imo its just something else for the newspapers to bullsh1t about

pete

 

[susi]

Did someone say, "fast magazine change" ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAFxgQmxbGI

 

[TallMikeM]

cheers lads!

One further question!there's been a lot of talk about problems with the kit the boys are using, do you think this is because the kit issued is bad, or that there just isn't enough of it??

Bearing that in mind I guess, did you guys tend to buy a lot of your own kit, or stick with the stuff you were issued?

military kit is always a compromise between cost and reliability, one has to give. And there's never enough of anything, except for those times when there is and you complain cos you've got too much stuff to carry.

I'll echo the comment about modern kit being good. When I was in (late 80's and early 90's) the issue stuff was substandard. I have a current issue jacket for hunting, and it's streets ahead of what I was issued with. Shame it only comes in DPM, cos it'd make a great outdoors jacket.

 

[ghillieman]

Dutch army and marines are issued now with a new load bearing vest, wich replaces the old model wich had a alice clip system, and laces on the sides to make it the right size.
Our soldiers saying i want to fight with my gear, not against it, wich would be nice when using it in Uruzgan.
Strange that al these test before does not result in in exellent gear,of course the new gear is not as heavy as the stuff of the seventies and eighties.

 

[leon-1]

Dump pouches are a natural progression from the old "Brecon Pouch". As the others have said they are used during a firefight for dropping empty magazines. You don't use a dump pouch for all magazines as there is normally no means of keeping charged and empty magazines separate.

Taped magazines are a different matter, most of the guys have given good reasons for not using them dirt ingress into the mouth of the magazine causing stoppages and damage to the round are the the major reasons.

Taping magazines in an upward staggered manner doesn't work with the SA80 due the magazine housing and the magazine release catch.

However the HK53 which was issued to the British forces did come with a magazine clip that held both magazines in the upright position side by side reducing the chance of dirt ingress. It was used by the british forces for a good number of years, but was not considered a good idea for standard infantry work as you could not guarentee the safety / security of the magazine or the cleanliness of the ammunition in standard infantry tactics.

 

[leon-1]

cheers lads!

One further question!there's been a lot of talk about problems with the kit the boys are using, do you think this is because the kit issued is bad, or that there just isn't enough of it??

Bearing that in mind I guess, did you guys tend to buy a lot of your own kit, or stick with the stuff you were issued?

When I started (1986) we bought loads of our own kit, by the time I left (2000) we weren't buying anywhere near the same amount, kit had progressed / improved in many ways and cases, but there was generally a shortage and some of the kit that we had trialled and had got the contract for the design had then been given to the lowest bidder to make. With the cost went the quality.

Now the problem seems more to be that the quality is there, but the massive buying power that the likes of the American forces have we haven't got as we just don't have the quantity of people or the budget to do it.

 

[Melonfish]

pretty much been covered but yeah, dump pouch isn't for emptied but rather not "full" mags, i.e. you get a moment you're not sure how much you have left in your mag but you may be in the thick any sec, so you dump the one you have in and get a fresh mag in just incase, later on during a lull you can re-load that mag or whatever.

as for taped mags together well thats purely because if you hit the floor with your rifle you'll just clock the mag with dirt, you don't notice because there's bullets whizzing past you then when you next slap that mag in you'll just gum up the firing mech with dirt.

hope thats answered that one

 

[forestwalker]

We taped the mags for the old Swedish M45/B 9mm, but that was in a "V" position (same end up), and mostly as a way to enable quick changes in "expected firefights (i.e. if you were going to do an ambush, man a roadblock, etc). As for stoppages imagine a fairly "open" gun, fired until warm, dragged in the snow a bit and allowed to refreeze...

 

[wingstoo]

For Magazine couplers there are these which keep the rounds uppermost, with enough room between to ensure they fit the weapon correctly. £15 a set.

The dump pouches £15.50 EACH

or £24.50 each

Not sure if much of this is issued kit though.

 

[tobes01]

as for taped mags together well thats purely because if you hit the floor with your rifle you'll just clock the mag with dirt, you don't notice because there's bullets whizzing past you then when you next slap that mag in you'll just gum up the firing mech with dirt.

Agree with everything here - just one other point, instructors don't want soldiers scattering blank ammunition all over training areas because their upside-down magazines decided to regurgitate their contents into a hedge somewhere...