a few months ago my machete was broken by a freind of mine - i wont be lending him anything again!!! the machete was a good one and i was wondering if i could make it into a good knife. i have no experience of knifemaking so could you tell me how i would go about doing this. can i just cut the metal to shape and grind?? thanks
old machete to new knife
- Thread starter Josh
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Get yourself over to British Blades, a lot of the folk on here are over there aswell, so you are still among friends, and you'll make loads over there aswell. There are an unbelievable amount of talented guys and gals there who will give you advice, or maybe even do the job for you. Give it a try.
Josh,
I've just made a knife out of an old metal file, following the advice on www.greenpete.co.uk . I just used a grinding machine and a linisher. I didn't have the means to heat treat either, so my knife will be somewhat brittle until I can remedy the situation
If you have a piece of the original that is long enough for a knife, then give it a try. It'll be difficult to saw, but should grind OK - just try to keep it cool so you dont upset the temper of the blade!
Next for me will be a sheath.
ATB
Ogri the trog
I've just made a knife out of an old metal file, following the advice on www.greenpete.co.uk . I just used a grinding machine and a linisher. I didn't have the means to heat treat either, so my knife will be somewhat brittle until I can remedy the situation
If you have a piece of the original that is long enough for a knife, then give it a try. It'll be difficult to saw, but should grind OK - just try to keep it cool so you dont upset the temper of the blade!
Next for me will be a sheath.
ATB
Ogri the trog
Sawing the blade can be done with a tungsten carbide rod saw blade in a hacksaw frame. These can be purchaced for cutting tiles and will go through just about anything without having to aneal the metal.
This means you will not need to re-heat treat it providing you keep it cool while you are grinding.
This means you will not need to re-heat treat it providing you keep it cool while you are grinding.
I wouldn't expect the knife to be all that good without some form of additional heat treatment, and maybe not even then.
In the case of the file, the blade can be placed in a kitchen oven and tempered back to a tougher, slightly softer, state, about 350degF or 180degC, something about like that, both www.britishblades.com, and www.bladeforums.com have advice.
Machetes tend to be tempered to a softer state already, they need to be tougher than a belt knife, and easier to sharpen. The Becker Patrol is one exception, there are others, but generally machetes are meant to be soft enough to sharpen on whatever is handy in the bush. That might mean it is no more than low 50s on the Rockwell C scale, typical bushcraft knives run around 57-60.
If you are doing this because you want to MAKE a knife, go for it, if you are doing it because you think you will get a good knife cheap
It would probably be more cost and time effective to buy a Lapp Puukko or similar.
Making just one knife really is hard. I started out buying blades and fitting handles to them, much easier than worrying about heat treating. However after I had handled about five I decided I wanted full control over the designs I made, so invested in a bunch of files and sandpaper, raided the family tool cupboard, scrounged steel and brass from work, bought a bit more steel and brass, and got filing. I was able to do heat threating at work, that was just a bit before British Blades started up so there wasn't anyone I could ask to treat my blades. The point being that I had a bunch of tools from my family to start with, had some I had used for wood working (handle fitting), had access to others at work, and fully intended making knives to be an ongoing thing, not a one off venture, so the investment was worth it.
Anyway........ Something you need to remember, there are lots of ways to make knives and most makers will only tell you how they do it So feel free to ignore all the above
Best of luck!!
In the case of the file, the blade can be placed in a kitchen oven and tempered back to a tougher, slightly softer, state, about 350degF or 180degC, something about like that, both www.britishblades.com, and www.bladeforums.com have advice.
Machetes tend to be tempered to a softer state already, they need to be tougher than a belt knife, and easier to sharpen. The Becker Patrol is one exception, there are others, but generally machetes are meant to be soft enough to sharpen on whatever is handy in the bush. That might mean it is no more than low 50s on the Rockwell C scale, typical bushcraft knives run around 57-60.
If you are doing this because you want to MAKE a knife, go for it, if you are doing it because you think you will get a good knife cheap
It would probably be more cost and time effective to buy a Lapp Puukko or similar. Making just one knife really is hard. I started out buying blades and fitting handles to them, much easier than worrying about heat treating. However after I had handled about five I decided I wanted full control over the designs I made, so invested in a bunch of files and sandpaper, raided the family tool cupboard, scrounged steel and brass from work, bought a bit more steel and brass, and got filing. I was able to do heat threating at work, that was just a bit before British Blades started up so there wasn't anyone I could ask to treat my blades. The point being that I had a bunch of tools from my family to start with, had some I had used for wood working (handle fitting), had access to others at work, and fully intended making knives to be an ongoing thing, not a one off venture, so the investment was worth it.
Anyway........
Something you need to remember, there are lots of ways to make knives and most makers will only tell you how they do it So feel free to ignore all the above Best of luck!!
C_Claycomb said:In the case of the file, the blade can be placed in a kitchen oven and tempered back to a tougher, slightly softer, state, about 350degF or 180degC, something about like that, both www.britishblades.com, and www.bladeforums.com have advice.
It would probably be more cost and time effective to buy a Lapp Puukko or similar.
Making just one knife really is hard. I started out buying blades and fitting handles to them, much easier than worrying about heat treating. However after I had handled about five I decided I wanted full control over the designs I made, so invested in a bunch of files and sandpaper, raided the family tool cupboard, scrounged steel and brass from work, bought a bit more steel and brass, and got filing.
Anyway........
Best of luck!!
Chris,
Thanks for the reply and advice,
I have a coal fired range in the kitchen and wondered whether to do any heat treating in thefirebox? Is gets good and hot, (no real idea about the actual temperature!) but to leave the firebox door open means the house fills with smoke!
The file knife was started as a boredom diversion in work last week and whilst its a useable item, its not very pleasant to look at. It has served its purpose already though in getting me onto the learning curve. Next will be a sheath for it and the learning curve for leatherwork.
I bought a Puukko from Beachlover last week and am very pleased with it.
I was also pointed towards some blade makers (www.smie.net) by someone on British blades and its looks like I'll be going down that road as well. I have some ideas about using a long version of a "turks head" knot as a handle.
I hope I don't find myself in a few years trying to improvise a forge in the garden as my latest hobby takes over my life
Anyway thanks for the pointers
Ogri the trog
I'm pleased people are getting some knives made with the help of my web site! Great, lets see more!
I'm a bit disappointed that the heat treatment is not being tackled at home (or at all!)
I have put instructions on for not only hardening and tempering but also annealing, the process used to soften a blade that has been hardened and tempered, allowing you to re-work a blade or file.
If I have not made it clear enough then please let me know and I'll try to put some more detail in.
As for my forge, it's quite a simple affair! Just bits of car really! The wheel rim makes the man body and the interior blower motor does the air feed. Again if you would like me to put more detail in let me know!
It would be nice to see the knives I have helped to bring into being so please post them to the forum or mail them to me. (Address available on my web site www.greenpete.co.uk )
Happy knife making! Greenpete
I'm a bit disappointed that the heat treatment is not being tackled at home (or at all!)
I have put instructions on for not only hardening and tempering but also annealing, the process used to soften a blade that has been hardened and tempered, allowing you to re-work a blade or file.
If I have not made it clear enough then please let me know and I'll try to put some more detail in.
As for my forge, it's quite a simple affair! Just bits of car really! The wheel rim makes the man body and the interior blower motor does the air feed. Again if you would like me to put more detail in let me know!
It would be nice to see the knives I have helped to bring into being so please post them to the forum or mail them to me. (Address available on my web site www.greenpete.co.uk )
Happy knife making! Greenpete
Greenpete,
Thanks for taking the time to boost my confidence.
It really is a confidence thing, I'm sure that I can soften the "file" blade for working - but not entirely confident that I could get the blade hardened again for use.
I suppose that now I know that I'm being watched, I'll have to get on and try something.
As to posting pictures....... there we go again with that confidence thing.......
I guess I'm going to have to try that as well.
Cheers
Ogri the trog
Thanks for taking the time to boost my confidence.
It really is a confidence thing, I'm sure that I can soften the "file" blade for working - but not entirely confident that I could get the blade hardened again for use.
I suppose that now I know that I'm being watched, I'll have to get on and try something.
As to posting pictures....... there we go again with that confidence thing.......
I guess I'm going to have to try that as well.
Cheers
Ogri the trog
Don't worry too much about what people will think or say, if the knife you make does what you want it to do then that's all that really matters.Ogri the trog said:
As for posting pictures, if you don't want to put them in a public domain then how about you send me a picture? I can promise you I wont publish it without your permission (if at all). It would just be nice to see how people are doing. This would help me to improve the content on my site.
Greenpete
Alternative heat treatment set ups to the brake drum and blower forge...
Those are SOFT fire bricks and I have drilled one as a "one brick forge" as described by Wayne Goddard. There should be plenty of info floating around the net on that one, both on British Blades, Blade Forums and elsewhere. Heat source is a propane/butane mix blow torch from B&Q, it is the hotest flame version of their mixed gas torches. Some B&Qs also stock Bernzomatic torches that fit either the small blue propane cylinders, or MAPP gas. I am unimpressed with the one I have compared to the Butane/Propane mix.
In the background of the picture is a baking tray and a bottle of oil, oil can be peanut, or other cooking oil, again, do a search on the knife sites. I cheat, I lifted some Castrol quenching oil from work so can't tell you which alternative oil is "best". Oil is heated on the stove, very low heat, to about 65degC.
To move the process out of the kitchen I bought a outdoor mini gas ring that runs off a bottle, about £15. Tempering is still done in the kitchen oven. My oven gets hot enough to over cook blades if I don't pay attention. My Dad's oven never gets hot enough to make them go yellow! If you can bake decent bread, then it is probably hot enough.
Tempering is all about temperature and time, most makers go for three 1 hour long tempers, with cooling periods between.
Those are SOFT fire bricks and I have drilled one as a "one brick forge" as described by Wayne Goddard. There should be plenty of info floating around the net on that one, both on British Blades, Blade Forums and elsewhere. Heat source is a propane/butane mix blow torch from B&Q, it is the hotest flame version of their mixed gas torches. Some B&Qs also stock Bernzomatic torches that fit either the small blue propane cylinders, or MAPP gas. I am unimpressed with the one I have compared to the Butane/Propane mix.
In the background of the picture is a baking tray and a bottle of oil, oil can be peanut, or other cooking oil, again, do a search on the knife sites. I cheat, I lifted some Castrol quenching oil from work
so can't tell you which alternative oil is "best". Oil is heated on the stove, very low heat, to about 65degC. To move the process out of the kitchen I bought a outdoor mini gas ring that runs off a bottle, about £15. Tempering is still done in the kitchen oven. My oven gets hot enough to over cook blades if I don't pay attention. My Dad's oven never gets hot enough to make them go yellow! If you can bake decent bread, then it is probably hot enough.
Tempering is all about temperature and time, most makers go for three 1 hour long tempers, with cooling periods between.
I would be lost withough G-clamps
A vise does make things easier though
The heavier your bench the better! If you can't sit on it, then load it down with bricks, logs, a willing helper, whatever is handy! !
I don't use a jig for filing. Not as accurate as I would be with a jig, but more suited for the kind of bevel I like. If you start filing at a steep angle and "walk" the bevel away from you, towards the spine, you can keep things remarkably even. Trying to file at the angle you want right from the start will tend to make the file skate and put scratches across the blade blank. Oils on the steel surface are to blame, even skin oil. The fress filed surface is "grippier".
I use a bit of scrap stock to prevent me running into the ricasso area, and a square file to hog off material.
A random image here. This is how you can make things flat, either with a file, or with sandpaper, though in the latter case it is better to glue the paper to a flat surface rather than clamp it.
Sorry I don't have any better pictures
Pete and I do things differently, but there are LOTS of ways to make knives. The main hurdle when starting out is to addapt to the tools and facilities you have at hand
A vise does make things easier though
The heavier your bench the better! If you can't sit on it, then load it down with bricks, logs, a willing helper, whatever is handy!
! I don't use a jig for filing. Not as accurate as I would be with a jig, but more suited for the kind of bevel I like. If you start filing at a steep angle and "walk" the bevel away from you, towards the spine, you can keep things remarkably even. Trying to file at the angle you want right from the start will tend to make the file skate and put scratches across the blade blank. Oils on the steel surface are to blame, even skin oil. The fress filed surface is "grippier".
I use a bit of scrap stock to prevent me running into the ricasso area, and a square file to hog off material.
A random image here. This is how you can make things flat, either with a file, or with sandpaper, though in the latter case it is better to glue the paper to a flat surface rather than clamp it.
Sorry I don't have any better pictures
Pete and I do things differently, but there are LOTS of ways to make knives. The main hurdle when starting out is to addapt to the tools and facilities you have at hand
Chris Et All,
My poor excuse for not being around much and getting the photos done is 'coz I've been making the handles for two knife kits I got from BRISA. Once I get to finding our trusty Mavica, I'll get some pictures posted out (note, sent out for individual perusal, as opposed to posting them here as thats a skill that I don't have yet).
The kits were for a Nordic and a Fillet knife and have proved to be very good as a starter. I can definately see myself going for blades only next time, maybe hand-forged. One tiny criticism, the supplied sheaths have quite a small neck, now being a bloke with big hands, I prefer the handles of knives to be quite thick, but I'm restricted by the size of the sheath. Now next time, I'll be making my own sheath, so theres no problem.
As far as the File knife goes, I've learnt a lot ,
I made the blade as a "FullTang", in the belief that it would be inherantly stronger. But the restriction you get is that the handle is in two pieces and each must match the profile of the tang. Hence the handle has turned out much thinnner than I would have liked. Perhaps I could soften the steel down and cut the tang so that it will fit through a hollow handle. This has further meant that I don't want to make a sheath (yet) for a handle that is too small.
I made the blade as a spear point, and ground it with flat sides - now, in some lights, its difficult to tell which is the sharp edge! Not insurmountable, but nonetheless a PITA.
This learning curve can be such fun!
Ogri the trog
My poor excuse for not being around much and getting the photos done is 'coz I've been making the handles for two knife kits I got from BRISA. Once I get to finding our trusty Mavica, I'll get some pictures posted out (note, sent out for individual perusal, as opposed to posting them here as thats a skill that I don't have yet).
The kits were for a Nordic and a Fillet knife and have proved to be very good as a starter. I can definately see myself going for blades only next time, maybe hand-forged. One tiny criticism, the supplied sheaths have quite a small neck, now being a bloke with big hands, I prefer the handles of knives to be quite thick, but I'm restricted by the size of the sheath. Now next time, I'll be making my own sheath, so theres no problem.
As far as the File knife goes, I've learnt a lot ,
I made the blade as a "FullTang", in the belief that it would be inherantly stronger. But the restriction you get is that the handle is in two pieces and each must match the profile of the tang. Hence the handle has turned out much thinnner than I would have liked. Perhaps I could soften the steel down and cut the tang so that it will fit through a hollow handle. This has further meant that I don't want to make a sheath (yet) for a handle that is too small.
I made the blade as a spear point, and ground it with flat sides - now, in some lights, its difficult to tell which is the sharp edge!
Not insurmountable, but nonetheless a PITA.This learning curve can be such fun!
Ogri the trog
Ogri the trog said:
You could put the file in a regular oven at 400 degrees for 20 min. or so. Grind it smooth so you can see the color change. Go for "straw" color. It would be a LOT of work grinding a regular file to a knife blade without losing temper.
I make quick and dirty blades at work (I'm a machinist) from knife files. The files are already knife shaped in edge profile. I grind them smooth to see the color change, then profile the shape of the blade on a belt sander. As I profile, I try to turn the heal of the blade blue or purple without letting it reach the cutting edge. Quick, dirty differential tempering, then I buff it out and turn it straw in my home oven. These are pretty sloppy blades, but I get them out of the scrap barrell occasionally pretty cheaply. I'll give them away and occasionally one will turn out just right and be a "keeper" for me.
Thanks for that Davek,
Having spoken to Greenpete recently, I think I'll go for hardening the blade on a chacoal fire with a blower of some sort, then temper it in the firebox of my Rayburn (I don't have a "regular" oven that I can select a temperature, the coals glow red in one side and food gets hot/warm/burnt {delete as appropriate} in the other!)
The blade is pretty much to shape, though needs a better handle that I prototyped.
Cheers
Ogri the trog
Having spoken to Greenpete recently, I think I'll go for hardening the blade on a chacoal fire with a blower of some sort, then temper it in the firebox of my Rayburn (I don't have a "regular" oven that I can select a temperature, the coals glow red in one side and food gets hot/warm/burnt {delete as appropriate} in the other!)
The blade is pretty much to shape, though needs a better handle that I prototyped.
Cheers
Ogri the trog
