Oil and water

[Tadpole]

This might be a dumb question but here goes.
Back in the good old days, (not so good but certainly long ago) when I sharpened my tools and knives, I used an two sided oil stone, I must admit I never had any problems with the edge, and though no expert, my tools, chisels, plane blades, rebating irons, knifes etc, were sharp enough for the tasks.

Questions

1: oil stones / water stone which is better? for general sharpening

2: can you use an “oil stone” with water?

2b: if it is possible, what is the best way of preparing an oil stone (I have a brand new and unused) for use with water?

Please feel free to point and laugh at me.

 

[Davey]

I used to use a combination oil stone that I had had for many years. I thought that I could get a good edge from using this along with stropping... Chisels and knifes always seemed sharp enough..
However, after watching one of Mr Mears DVD's explaing how he sharpens his tools I decided to invest in some Water Stones.
The difference was much more than I had expected.. After using the water stones I get an extremly fine edge to any tool I sharpen. Much finer than with the oil stone. I would definitely recommend them.. 800grit followed by a 1200grit and 6000 to finish off !

Hope this helps
Davey

 

[Ogri the trog]

I hope that I'm wrong in a crass generalisation, but the Japanese, from whom we get the waterstone idea, have been sharpeneing things for a lot longer than we have in the west.
I'm quite prepared to be flamed for that comment, but when you hear stories of Japanes craftsmen, who would spend a third of their working day, meditating and sharpening their blades, there just has to be something in it.

To directly answer your questions Tadpole,
1, Whichever suits you and gets your blades as sharp as you want them.
2, Not once it has had oil on it. From new might be worth a try but waterstones are not that expensive really.
2b, Soak it I guess
3, The only dumb question is the one that you don't ask

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Wayland]

I hope that I'm wrong in a crass generalisation, but the Japanese, from whom we get the waterstone idea, have been sharpeneing things for a lot longer than we have in the west.
I'm quite prepared to be flamed for that comment, but when you hear stories of Japanes craftsmen, who would spend a third of their working day, meditating and sharpening their blades, there just has to be something in it.

:swordfigh

Take a look at the technology involved in the Sutton Hoo sword. It took the Japanese quite a while to match that.

 

[wolf]

i use an oil stone for most of my edges.At times ive used butter on it,and even spit,the only thing i wont use on it is things like axes as i find it wears the stone down and you end up with a groove,this makes it harder to sharpen smaller knives.

 

[Lore]

I would agree with the above. I have both oil and waterstones. I am a carpenter by trade , at work I use an oilstone and at home I use a waterstone. When I am at work people always comment on how sharp my tools are. As an apprentice I was always told to keep my tools as sharp as possible. The saying was, little and often. If I have a spare minute I always give something a rub on the stone. Waterstones need to be soaked for a time before you use them whereas an oilstone only needs a squirt of oil. (I have heard that it is not good to keep a waterstone submerged all the time) A new oilstone that has never seen oil can be used with water but once its seen oil you cannot go back. I think that you can get a sharp edge using a good combination stone. It is a lovely idea to have many stones with lots of different grits on them but how many stones are you going to carry with you. Go into your local toolshop see what they have on offer and get a feeling for the stones they recommend.If you are not happy there many diamond hones about.

 

[Squidders]

Oil and water both will give a good edge with a fine enough stone...

I prefer water as I end up with wet hands rather than oily ones after sharpening. That's just a preference though.

I use a DC4 when i'm out with spit and it seems to work a treat.

Joe

 

[scruff]

:swordfigh

Take a look at the technology involved in the Sutton Hoo sword. It took the Japanese quite a while to match that.

I hope that I'm wrong in a crass generalisation, but the Japanese, from whom we get the waterstone idea, have been sharpeneing things for a lot longer than we have in the west.
I'm quite prepared to be flamed for that comment, but when you hear stories of Japanes craftsmen, who would spend a third of their working day, meditating and sharpening their blades, there just has to be something in it.

Ogri the trog

Europeans and the Japanese (eventually) both excelled at smithying fine blades for whatever there purpose. It was only the Japanese, through hundreds of years of isolationism and a government need to control and civilise the nations great number of 'redundant' warriors (circa. 1600>), who had time to develop such an skill.

Warriors became 'gentlemen' by occupying themselves with highly ritualised (and sometimes inane tasks) such as sword polishing. A way to polish ones soul.

They simply made an art out of it.....and dare I say removed it from its original 'practical' art (jitsu) into a more socially acceptable way (do). Which also helped (or not) to preserve and refine classical skills.

IMHO Japanese mirror finish polishing is not actually practical, well not unless you enjoy polishing and don't use ur edged tools that much....like all good Edo samurai

Back to the point....Tadpole, whatever you find easiest mate.

I use oilstone at home and dc4 in the field.

 

[swamp donkey]

I could end up going off on one here but I'll try my best not to .

I won't repeat any of Scruff and Waylands comments as they sum up in basic terms the Euro / Japanese thing.

Sticking with actual stones .As has been said the finer the edge the finer the stone required. The debate about water or oil is one of those never ending ones of personal preferance . Water has been used in Europe equally as long as Japan (because its free) but in certain areas of Europe freezing is a problem so water is not a lot of good because the stones crack . Also oilstones tend to wear less than waterstones. The choice of oil is also important.

High quality natural sharpening stones of all grades have been available throughout Europe certainly since records began and stones from other areas are often found on neolithic sites. Stones from Britian have been regarded as among the very best and are equally as good as any from the far East.
The problem is that production in Britian ceased in the mid 50's. There are natural European stones are still available from Belgium, Finland and the Slovak states.

I have been investigating the UK industry for a number of years now (very sad I know but!!). There is very little about this once very lucrative industry,Any body who has any info please PM me.

As a side note I buff all my chisels, plane irons etc etc to a mirror finish on a wheel, once done its easy to keep them that way.I find that they stay sharp longer, cut easier , planes do not clog , resist rusting longer. and impress customers no end. I work on the old quote "you can tell a good craftsman by the way he treats his tools."

 

[Graham_S]

i tend to use a waterstone on any blade that will contact food.

 

[addyb]

Guys, (barring the Japanese/Euro debate, all which are good comments) here are my thoughts at 07.30 on a Friday morning. ((Ooh...it snowed here in Nanaimo. A whopping 2 inches!))

It's already been said here that different stones require different forms of lubrication. Japanese stones use water, in fact they "live" in water. I know someone who keeps his Japanese stone in a sealed box with water in it, so it won't dry out.

I have a small set of Arkansas stones that I use for my larger knives, as well as my parents kitchen knives, as my Dad can't sharpen worth a damn. (You should see him try to use a knife steel, it's horrible!) I use honing oil on them, I buy it from an old hardware store here in town.

Anyway, they say the purpose of using oil or water is to create a slurry of metal particles that are shaved off the knife. This slurry prevents the pores in the stone from becoming clogged, and supposedly aids in sharpening your blade/chisel/whatever you're into.

On the other hand, there is a book out there called "The Razor's Edge Sharpening System" *I don't remember the dude's name, I haven't had enough coffee yet* but needless to say, he recommends using neither for lubrication. The man writes that after doing experiments with some American meat cutters on dry stones that he was able to get their knives to a far sharper state than they ever did before.

I've used the technique, I haven't noticed a great deal of difference. It's definately a quicker way to use a stone on a knife, but the steel clogs them and you have to clean them. I will admit though, that it took away my need to strop the finished product, so it shaved a few minutes off my time.

But lately, I've been convex-ing my knives and using the "Hoodoo Stone" which in my humble opinion, is the coolest thing since sliced bread.

And there is your informative post about oil and water stones.

Adam

*goes for more coffee**

 

[scruff]

In terms of holding the slip/slurry of particles on the stone I find that an oil keeps there better from simple viscosity point of view. Also if your using a waterstone theres a tendency for the slurry just to wash off if you add more water.....grrrr!

 

[Hi Lander]

I use the Japaniese water stone, and it gets a great edge to my nife.

 

[addyb]

Yep, that's definately a problem with water stones; the slurry slips off and you need more water. It can be a tad annoying can't it?

Wow, I haven't used my Arkansas stones in ages. I've got this addiction to convex-ing every blade I can lay my hands on with the Hoodoo Stone. (mousepad/wet-dry paper)

Sooner or later I'll run out of SAK's to work on and I'll start going through withdrawls!

Adam

 

[gregorach]

I love my little Arkansas stone. Great for field sharpening - which is why I only use water on it. Oil does do a better job, but it's not always available when you need it. If you haven't got any water, then you have much more immediate and serious problems to worry about...

However, I really wouldn't want to do any serious grinding with it - it's only for maintainence. Little and often, as I think someone else said.