Oil and gas - it's not running out!

[Andy BB]

Couple of articles over the last few months have addressed the apparent "absolute certainty" that there was a "peak oil" point, where supplies would start running out - and that "peak oil" point had already arrived. Yet with recent discoveries, and in particular "fracking", we could actually be seeing a glut of the stuff shortly. And for the economy, that could mean the UK and US becoming self-sufficient again in energy, with huge implications for the global economy.

Couple of articles

- one from the New York Times http://www.thegwpf.org/the-coming-oil-boom/

one from the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22748915

Lots of possible implications for the environment, but interesting how absolute certainties often turn out to be - well - not!

 

[British Red]

Its not running out?

That means oil is being created at a rate equal to or faster than its rate of consumption. Are you sure thats what those articles say?

I submit it is running out, just that there are more reserves than previously believed - or more likely the rise in oil price means previously uneconomical reserves are now worth extracting.

As for fracking - I truly hope I never live near a location that technology is used - poisoned ground water, tectonic shifts...and corporate denial of responsibility. No thanks.

 

[Corso]

Might also change foreign and domestic policy too

 

[santaman2000]

It's still running out. But yeah, fracking and other extraction methods have made it more viable to get to what was once impossible or uneconomical. And actually the US did pass the self sufficiency mark a month or two ago (at the current moment we're producing more than we use for the first time in over 40 years) Not sure how long that will last though.

Eventually we (the whole world) are going to have to either scale back energy use or fing a source other than fossil fuels. My bet's on the latter.

 

[Andy BB]

Its not running out?

That means oil is being created at a rate equal to or faster than its rate of consumption. Are you sure thats what those articles say?

I submit it is running out, just that there are more reserves than previously believed - or more likely the rise in oil price means previously uneconomical reserves are now worth extracting.

As for fracking - I truly hope I never live near a location that technology is used - poisoned ground water, tectonic shifts...and corporate denial of responsibility. No thanks.

True - we are using up finite reserves. But the point I was getting at is that peak oil isn't here - and won't be for - in the UK's case for gas at any rate - potentially 300+ years. Yet we still see doom merchants predicting world collapse as oil reserves disappear in the immediate future.

As for fracking, same argument basically. Safer technology using different "mud" and not drilling on fault lines, reducs any risk significantly. Some of the more unpleasant techniques are already banned in the EU, and the "eartquakes" some go on about are on the level of a man jumping on the ground (although there have been a couple higher on the R scale caused by careless drilling on tectonic fault lines). Even the worst of those incidents was 3.8 on the R scale......

And - at the end of the day - if you want electricity, you've got to pay the piper.................

 

[Andy BB]

It's still running out. But yeah, fracking and other extraction methods have made it more viable to get to what was once impossible or uneconomical. And actually the US did pass the self sufficiency mark a month or two ago (at the current moment we're producing more than we use for the first time in over 40 years) Not sure how long that will last though.

Eventually we (the whole world) are going to have to either scale back energy use or fing a source other than fossil fuels. My bet's on the latter.

I think you're right. My money's on
a- fusion, and
b - bugs.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

I suppose we could always bring back ice from Mars to use as drinking water after the fracking idiots have polluted the Earth's water sources.

 

[Tengu]

I still think being fussed about microquakes is pretty silly

And Im sure there are better ways to pollute water supplies

 

[British Red]

There may be "better ways" but there are numerous scientificly proven cases of fracking contaminating large areas of ground water with dangerous chemicals and hydrocarbons.

 

[santaman2000]

And yet we continue discussing the subject on a forum deoendent on electricity and increaded bandwidth.

 

[Tengu]

Yes, that's the irony.

A company plans on building a solar farm near me, which is a bit of a joke, taking up farmland when theres so many empty roofs in the village.

 

[santaman2000]

There may be "better ways" but there are numerous scientificly proven cases of fracking contaminating large areas of ground water with dangerous chemicals and hydrocarbons.

Possibly so. But I doubt to the extent the naysayers would have us believe, And in any case ATM I'm more concerned with the widespread mercury content than petrochemical content.

 

[British Red]

And yet we continue discussing the subject on a forum deoendent on electricity and increaded bandwidth.

Fracking is not the only way to produce electricity.

 

[santaman2000]

Fracking is not the only way to produce electricity.

No, I agree. But it is a significant part of the total energy supply. Personally I'd like to see more nuclear power.

 

[Corso]

But the point I was getting at is that peak oil isn't here - and won't be for - in the UK's case for gas at any rate - potentially 300+ years.

hell knows what my tariff will be by then....

 

[sandbender]

"...I submit it is running out, just that there are more reserves than previously believed - or more likely the rise in oil price means previously uneconomical reserves are now worth extracting..."

I'm with Red on this, it is running out.

As for the uneconomical reserves that are now worth extracting, they are still uneconomical we cannot afford to spend that much money digging for oil, we don't have that money, we're borrowing it from the future, quite far into the future.

But then again if we stop digging for that oil then everything goes a bit pear shaped and probably quite quickly.

This isn't the future I was promised! Where is my cold fusion?

 

[xylaria]

Yes, that's the irony.

A company plans on building a solar farm near me, which is a bit of a joke, taking up farmland when theres so many empty roofs in the village.

good logic. If the tescos in stoke on trent and the NCP carpark rugby can power their lighting with horizontal wind turbines and solar panels I dont understand why they arent on every tower block, or empty urban space.

 

[HillBill]

We don't need oil or gas if they started making things from all the patents they are sitting on.

 

[Andy BB]

We don't need oil or gas if they started making things from all the patents they are sitting on.

Very interesting, HB. And as patents are publicly available to all to view, I'm looking forward to your evidence of all this cover-up of cheap energy generation!

(oh - and as the Chinese (and others) have been ignoring patent law for centuries, I'm surprised they still need to buy such huge quantities of oil and gas on the open market, seeing as they would have been using all those cheap methods to generate electricity in-house!)

 

[rik_uk3]

Does this mean we can blow up all the $%^&%^%$ wind turbines now