No knife or Axe !

[pumbaa]

I have been wondering about the legal issues around carrying your favourite bushcraft knife and Granfors around the woods . So this starts me thinking on weather you could still do bushcraft with a SAK and a Folding saw ?
What do you guys think ? What is the minimal recomended blades to carry , and what could you not do without them .
As i see things there are 2 bushcraft situations . The first is the walk , the second is the overnighter . obviously these dictate diferent situations and tools .
Just interested what you guys would do if you couldnt carry an axe or fixed blade .
Cheers
Pumbaa

 

[addyb]

Pumbaa,

If you really think about it, bushcraft knives and axes are in a way, a luxary. People have been surviving for thousands of years in hostile environments with neither.

I can't explain the legality issue of carrying an axe in a woodlore situation, as I don't know much about law. But I can say that if you wanted, you could get by in a multi-nighter bushcraft expedition with just a SAK. Tree branches can be broken with heavy rocks, sharpening stones can be improvised by rubbing two rocks together until smooth. Fire can be made with a bow-drill. There's people on these forums that are able to do these things, and do them well.

I do just fine with what I carry. Just use what you're comfortable with, and you'll survive.

A.

 

[RovingArcher]

You could get by without any modern tool and still accomplish what you need to accomplish. The SAK and folding saw will work great, or, do away with the folding saw by getting yourself a SAK with saw.

 

[scanker]

I recently attended a basic weekend course where knives were only issued for preparation of food. Any other knives were discouraged. That said, every student built a shelter and slept in it.

I expect it's for safety reasons - easier than trying to keep an eye on a number of novices going off swinging axes and new blades.

They are a luxury, and useful in the right situation, but you don't have to be felling trees to build shelters IMHO.

 

[Ogden]

A fixed blade one piece is in my opinion a good tool. For me it's worth carrying
the weight. Chopping wood is diffucult without knife,
or at least costs a lot of time.
In winter I take a saw. A wonderful Markill Folding saw (please have a look in
the web for a picture, it is beautiful), big !,
for frozen wood.
Here in Germany it is forbidden to carry big folding knifes. But if you carry a big
fixed blade - no problem as long as you stay out of public areas + as long
as you don't look strange and have a good reason why you carry this knife.

And in recent times people were buisy with surviving. That's a full time job.
Personally I like a limited number of good tools/things.
Spares energy. More energy left.

 

[Tantalus]

Unless I am going somewhere that knives are expressly forbidden (eg air travel, schools, prisons to name a few) I wouldnt dream of leaving the house without a knife.

Its on a level of importance to me with wallet and keys.

Usually not for bushcrafty reasons, nor defence before anyone starts. More for everyday tasks like cutting twine or sticks, opening packets making a sandwich or sharpening a pencil.

If on a camping / bushcraft outing, I would tend to carry a bigger knife, either a fixed blade or a locking folder or both.

Even a day in town will see me with a folder in my pocket somewhere.

For the record, I do not go clubbing and pubbing in the evenings, in fact seldom enter a bar of any kind except for food, and due to legal reasons I would treat these places as though knives were illegal, specially in the evenings.

My point?

I am quite happy to take a fixed blade for a night or 2 in the woods,

An axe is a different tool altogether, Firewood for a night or 2 can be scavenged easily in the woods, no need to cut down trees with an axe. If a branch is too big to break by jumping on it energetically then it is probably too big for the fire. The other option is to burn a branch into 2 pieces by laying it across the fire. No point lugging an axe around all day just for that is there?

As for folding saws, I am afraid I do not have much time for them, my main reason for using a saw is to get a nice straight cut on something, not too important for stuff that will end up on the fire , or even an overnight shelter.IMVHO

Tant

 

[Goose]

Aren't folding saws classed the same as knives in law?

 

[match]

Yes, but folding blades are not automatically illegal, only locking ones.

The general rule with any knife (or indeed anything that could be classed as a weapon) is that if it locks, its automatically illegal. For anything else, its the purpose of carrying that counts. And also the interests of the police in prosecuting.

You're unlikely to be arrested carrying even a locking knife in the middle of the forest carving a spoon with it. You're highly likely to be arrested for carrying a swiss army knife in a nightclub.

Saying that, I've been stopped by police on the London Underground (many years ago - now I'd probably just be shot ) carrying a locking opinel, a fixed blade, and a folding saw and an axe, not to mention an 8 foot hazel staff. When asked what I was doing, I said I was coming back from a weekend camping in the woods in Sussex where I'd been doing bushcraft things (and had the mud, bowdrill, camping equipment etc to prove it as well). Policeman just sent me on my way.

 

[BlueTrain]

You British may think we Americans live in a constant state of anarchy and go around carrying guns (which has to be a .45) and switchblades. Some may but mostly it isn't necessary. More to the point, however, it isn't legal just everywhere.

Where I live in Northern Virginia, about the only places for hiking and overnight camping are either in national parks or national forests, which are not the same thing. Totally different in outlook and therefore, rules.

In national parks, which are mainly for recreational purposes, irregardless of what you may hear about preservation (after all, it is simply preserved for recreation), the rules are pretty tight. No fires, and therefore, no axes or saws (and no projectile firing weapon). It is pretty much assumed that you would take along a knife. I'm not aware of any distinction between knives with a lockblade and those without but switchblades are out. There is usually a distinction with regards to the blade length but not in the woods. And no fires, either.

In national forests, you are much less constricted. Within limits you can camp, have an open fire but there are rules on wood cutting, the firearms rules are looser but hunting regulations still apply, generally strictly enforced as far as I know and so on. But national forests are intended to be multi-use areas and outdoor recreation in not necessarily the highest priority. But some national parks let other things get in the way of that now and they are getting expensive to visit. No wonder I stay home more these days.

 

[addyb]

As Tantalus so aptly said "I wouldn't dream of leaving the house without a knife."

I wouldn't dream of it, either.

I simply do not leave my house without 3 objects in my pocket, 4 if you count my keys:

a) Swiss Army knife. (carried in my left trouser pocket)

b) Zippo lighter. (always fuelled, carried in right pocket) ((Also my smokes, but that's another story))

c) Fisher Space bullet pen. (Well, I DID carry it until I left it at work, and it uhm...well it disappeared)

Another thing I do is to periodically pat my pockets every so often. I can tell by feel if the objects are still there.

I've never had to use the objects for "staying alive" but the fact remains: You never know when you might need them. I think that falls along the lines of always being prepared.

I recently spent 8 hours putting together a small survival tin, which is small enough to fit into the chest pocket of my Ventile anorak. It's got a number of objects that I consider nesessary, minus 2, which I still need to find; a beta light, for reading maps, and a small folding saw. I'll get around to those sooner or later!

A.

 

[bambodoggy]

c) Fisher Space bullet pen. (Well, I DID carry it until I left it at work, and it uhm...well it disappeared).

Isn't that the one the US spent thousands of dollars developing and testing, meanwhile the Russians issued pencils lol

I carry a packpal while at work and an all steel army issue clasp knife if out walking the dog in the woods. I rarely carry any form of blade or point at any other time as I simply have no need of it.

Definately possible to get by without knife or axe or any other tool for that matter but often we are only out for a few hours or a couple of days so to maximise the things we can do and so get more practice in it is, in my opinion, better to use the right tools if we have them, as they save us time and allow us to do more. Evils of a modern life style I guess

I very very rarely chop wood for fires when I'm out though....never have the need, unless it's an all nighter when thicker logs are more useful I tend to stick to wrist sized braches and as I most often use a "trail fire", I just feed them in as they burn. All that sawing and chopping and splitting and stuff just looks like hard work....lol There's an indian saying about how their fires differed to the new settlers but I'm heading off topic so I'll leave it there as most of you will already have heard it

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[Brixton]

At the risk of sounding thick
Well I am from Mansfield
What's a SAK???
Surely sacks are for carrying coal?
Or what posh people do when married at night

 

[sandbender]

At the risk of sounding thick
Well I am from Mansfield
What's a SAK???
Surely sacks are for carrying coal?
Or what posh people do when married at night

Swiss Army Knife...

Spent six months building truck trailers in Mansfield once, very bright people I thought

 

[Brixton]

Swiss Army Knife...

Spent six months building truck trailers in Mansfield once, very bright people I thought

Maybe that's why I got chucked out and moved to Morecambe
Now if only I could get a mobility scooter I'ld fit right in

 

[addyb]

Isn't that the one the US spent thousands of dollars developing and testing, meanwhile the Russians issued pencils lol

Actually, that's a bit of an urban myth.

The inventor of the pen, Paul Fisher originally got started making ballpoint pens when they first came out, and were all the rage. He decided that he could do better. He was rather well off (for the 1960's) and spent a sum making what we today know as the 'space pen.' NASA, contrary to popular belief, did NOT spent copious amounts of money on the pen. Mr. Fisher simply marketed the pen to NASA, and they bought them at store price, and ever since then, to this day they are used on all manned space flights.

The bit about the Ruskies using the pencil is true, however these days they too, use the space pen. The truth of the matter is, is that pencils were not the best choice for space. If the lead were to break, in theory, it could puncture a suit. You figure the rest out. The other problem with pencils is that when out of the shuttle, facing the sun, there's incredible heat, which can burn up a pencil very quickly.

Most people make fun of the space pen until they use one. I myself was a victim of "poo-pooing" the pen until I bought one. They're not actually very expensive, only about twenty dollars, and they write upside down, underwater, and on just about anthing. I remember in high-school science class my teacher screamed at me because I was writing naughty words on the glass window. I even took a piece of waterproof paper into one of our local swimming pools, and wrote on it with a pen. And yes, I was yelled at by a lifeguard for that too!

Oh, and by the way, they're very smooth writing, and the ink won't evaporate!

 

[steven andrews]

and they're great for doing crosswords while lying on your back, in bed..

 

[swamp donkey]

Yes, but folding blades are not automatically illegal, only locking ones.

The general rule with any knife (or indeed anything that could be classed as a weapon) is that if it locks, its automatically illegal. For anything else, its the purpose of carrying that counts. And also the interests of the police in prosecuting.

You're unlikely to be arrested carrying even a locking knife in the middle of the forest carving a spoon with it. You're highly likely to be arrested for carrying a swiss army knife in a nightclub.

Saying that, I've been stopped by police on the London Underground (many years ago - now I'd probably just be shot ) carrying a locking opinel, a fixed blade, and a folding saw and an axe, not to mention an 8 foot hazel staff. When asked what I was doing, I said I was coming back from a weekend camping in the woods in Sussex where I'd been doing bushcraft things (and had the mud, bowdrill, camping equipment etc to prove it as well). Policeman just sent me on my way.

Lets get this right a locking blade knife is NOT ILLEGAL . They are just treated in the same way as a fixed blade . Which means you have to have a legitimate reason to be carrying it, of which there are many including hobby .
So the policeman was correct in letting you on your way.
If they where illegal you would not be able to purchase one

My most used cutting tool is a pair of tuff cut scissors really cheap and light you can even skin rabbits with them and they never stick in you toe if you drop them

 

[bambodoggy]

I myself was a victim of "poo-pooing" the pen until I bought one.

I certainly didn't mean to "poo-poo" you! I'd never dream of "poo-pooing", another bushcrafter, I knew a bushcrafter once who got "poo-pooed", he made the mistake of "poo-pooing", the "poo-poo". It turned out the chap who'd "poo-pooed" him had been "poo-pooing" other bushcrafters. It spread and got out of hand until all the other bushcrafters were "poo-pooing" each other willy nilly! Had to strike camp and abandon the whole weekend in the wood....all due to "poo-pooing"! lol

 

[Minotaur]

My most used cutting tool is a pair of tuff cut scissors really cheap and light you can even skin rabbits with them and they never stick in you toe if you drop them

Doh! I use sissors all the time in the kitchen at home, and have stacks of tuff cuts. I even take them with me bushcrafting.

Walks away, smacking head painful.

What will now be know as a Mansfield moment.

 

[Kirruth]

When I was younger, an SAK was all I had to do anything bushcrafty, and it works really well (need the ones that have a saw on them, though).

Any sharp bit of metal puts you one step up from our paleolithic ancestors, and they lived in this land for thousands of years.