Newbie woodwork project - advice - where to begin?

[davidpingu]

Hi everyone, I'm looking for some tips and advice on where to start with learning to do some garden projects. I'm a complete newbie to wood working but I've always had attention for detail and enjoy learning new skills, especially the ones I call life skills.

Over the past two years I've self taught quite a bit of mechanics. I love the hands on type stuff, I always get a sense of pleasure doing manual jobs (possibly because I'm sat behind a desk in a boring old office all day) not to mention the money you save.

I always think the money thing aside, you never quite know if at some point we'll need to be more self reliant. Needless to say this forum is right up my street when I see some of the skills people have in making clothes and leather working etc.

Anyway I'll get to the point.....

My garden is a really blank canvas with horrible rotten fencing and I want to turn it in to a purposeful living area. So I need to learn how to do the following:

Proper wooden fencing, not those poor quality panels you have to pay the earth for.
A decking platform at the back of the garden but with a roof over it, kind of like a porch area that makes a pleasant sitting area in all weather. In the cold I want to make use of an installed wood burning stove of some sort.
Then a shed, just for storage and a separate small undercover area for stock piling wood for the stove, maybe on the side of the shed. Also some planters for growing some veggies.

Obviously it's a lot of work and I know Rome wasn't built in a day but I know there are some really skilled people on here when it comes to this sort of stuff so I'm asking you guys, where do I start as a complete newbie? From sourcing the right materials to preparing the groundwork. Suggestions on reading materials, whatever is going to help me.

The most important thing is I do this myself for learning and the joy that it will bring!

Thanks,

Dave

 

[British Red]

I would start with the fence - for a number of reasons - it makes logistical sense, it gives you a wind an weather break and its easy to do!

I enjoy fencing on our place - from stock wire to barbed wire to decorative.

When you say "proper" wooden fencing - post and rail? Cleaved timber? what did you have in mind?

My only proviso on starting there is would having the fence up restrict access to getting plant and materials in for the other jobs? Or have you got good access regardless?

Decking and planters are a doddle with decent tools. Building a shed from basic timber & materials is more tricky - but far from impossible.

Sounds like a decent sliding chop saw is on the cards for you

 

[WoodsmanJim]

+1 for the chop saw if you don't have one already. It will save you literally hours of work across all those projects and give a better result too. Buy the best you can, no need to go De Walt or anything but get a good one. Also a good combi drill and a quality spirit level are essential.

Find a good local timber merchant and they should be able to advise on what you should use for what purposes, you'll also be able to browse their stock to see if it looks like the picture you have in your minds eye. If you don't have an independent locally, (they're usually cheaper and more helpful ) I've usually found Huws Gray to be better than Travis Perkins for timber products.

If you're building a kit shed don't be tempted by a cheaper shiplap shed. They're usually very poor and don't last.

All of those projects are very doable and the best way to learn is by doing!

 

[davidpingu]

The fence is definitely my starting point, mainly because I don't want people lopping off with newly acquired items!

Bearing in mind I'm a newbie I don't have technical terms for the fence but basically after something 6ft high with overlapping planks so you can't see through. I'd like to point the tips a little to discourage anyone trying to acquire access but I'm not sure if that's allowed?

Access is quite simple, we are an end terraced so access is on the open side of the property via what is currently an iron style gate which is a little worse for wear. I do intend to replace it with a non see through wood gate to match the fence but may use the metal gate as a backing for extra strength if that would work?

 

[Macaroon]

If you haven't already done so, get yourself a list of all the tools you're going to need and set about acquiring them; doesn't need to be expensive if you go to sales, car boots etc., there's nothing worse than finding you haven't got the kit for the job and having to stop work to go get stuff. Also a basic selection of fixings, you're always going to need screws and nails etc., and there are some good deals on "selection boxes" of these to be had from the likes of screwfix.............and a selection of drill bits for wood, again sets of these are not a lot of money. A good set of levels, a decent straight edge, a line and pegs which you can make up.

There is some basic kit like this that you can start to gather together as you do your research and it's usually cheaper and better to get them while you're not pushed for time, i.e. already building.

Oh yeah, and make yourself up a couple (or more) of decent saw-horses................Invaluable! and perhaps a good workmate-type bench.

 

[British Red]

Bearing in mind I'm a newbie I don't have technical terms for the fence but basically after something 6ft high with overlapping planks so you can't see through. I'd like to point the tips a little to discourage anyone trying to acquire access but I'm not sure if that's allowed?

You may want to overlap the boards - this is caused "feather edge boarding". Perfectly possible to make a 6' high fence - all you need is sold by my local mob (Witham timber)

http://www.withamtimber.co.uk/shop/fencing/feather-edge-board/wooden-fence-feather-edge-board/

You can also just butt joint boards (not overlapping just laying them against each other. Its more expensive, arguably stronger as it uses thicker boards, requires a little more skill).

Red

 

[davidpingu]

Thanks guys, really good advice already

The tools idea is a good one. I'll look up this chop saw then. Any other tips for what tools I need?
I have a decent cordless 24v Bosch drill, great bit off kit that hasn't let me down in years. Also have a good spirit level and some decent screw drivers. A decent socket set acquired for mechanics too and the obvious tool, a hammer! Think that's about it though.

Bit of a catch 22, need somewhere undercover outside to woodwork but need to build said structure first!

So first project then should be some sort of bench type thing to work on? Keep the replies coming, it's really helpful thanks all.

 

[British Red]

This is the sort of chop saw I mean


Chop Saw by British Red, on Flickr

goes up and down AND slides in and out - gives you accurate cuts. Can be angled around to cut mitres for your deck boards (mitres is a posh word for angled end cuts). can also be angled to one side to cut mitres in the vertical plane. Handy for roof trusses etc.

You will need a power drill AND power driver - and spare batteries for both


VB 45 Drill, Driver and Deck Screws by British Red, on Flickr

It goes

Drill a hole
Drive a screw
Drill a hole
Drive a screw

You don't want to have to take out the drill bit each time. You also don't want to use hand screw drivers laying a deck - you will be there for days and your forearms will put Popeye to shame

Get a proper box of drill bits


40) 7mm drill bit by British Red, on Flickr

Get a work bench to start with (folding one) - you will always need them


H Cut MDPE by British Red, on Flickr

Those are the real vitals - want me to talk fence tools?

 

[davidpingu]

Lapping this all up red, please carry on

Just had a look at the fencing site you linked too. Not as expensive as I thought although I know it will soon add up.

Mind if I stick some photos up of the yard shortly for your ideas? There is actually brick wall all the way around up to about waist height so it's knowing how to set fencing up around things like that. I was thinking still running fence to the floor for strength and aesthetics but it would be interesting to get opinions.

Security is of equal importance as although it's not the Bronx it's still an area where garden furniture regularly goes missing. You can't believe what people will nick sometimes.

 

[demographic]

Fence first, followed by shed. A man can't have a big enough shed.

DO NOT allow everyone else in the household access to that shed. You will live to regret the amount of crap they chuck in there otherwise.
Mowing machine? In the shed.
Broken pushbikes? In the shed.
Dead hoover? In the shed.

THE most expensive thing in that shed is empty floorspace to work in. Try to keep that space if you can.

 

[British Red]

Photos would help a lot - there are some experience fencers and builders on here who I'm sure will have better advice

Okay - searching for photos that help

Digging bar (6 foot steel bar for breaking up the ground)


Greenhouse 6 by British Red, on Flickr

Post rammer - used for driving fence posts - almost impossible to do it with a sledge hammer for a 6' fence (you will need 8 to 9 foot posts)


19 Post Rammer by British Red, on Flickr

Rabbiting spade for digging holes for fence posts


Rabbiting Spade by British Red, on Flickr

Coupled with some post hole diggers

You may not need the rammer for the sort of fence you are considering - but a digging bar, some post hole diggers and a drain spade will all be really useful.

 

[davidpingu]

Great thank you. I'll see if I can get some pictures taken tomorrow.

I'm considering using the metal spikes for the posts unless you think otherwise?

 

[Orchard]

I'm a noob to it too mate, but have quite a bit of kit and some to set up still (Radial Arm Saw for example). I also have a mid-level table saw that i'll want to move on (almost new), as I want a bandsaw eventually and have limited space in a single garage.
You're only a few miles away
Nick

 

[British Red]

Great thank you. I'll see if I can get some pictures taken tomorrow.

I'm considering using the metal spikes for the posts unless you think otherwise?

They work okay and can, for a small run of fencing work out cheaper than buying lots of oddball tools that you won't use again. They work out expensive for large fences though. I use tools and a bag of postcrete - nothing shifts my posts I think there are also fittings available to bolt into a brick wall to hold a post.

All worth considering - no point shelling out on tools you won't use twice.

 

[drliamski]

I am a bit of a dab hand at fencing as am a landscape gardener! Best fencing by far is with post and rail. Batton fencing always looks nice and contemporary. Closeboard (featheredge) for a solid fence.

Tools wise what's covered above, possibly a mutt for cutting through roots if lots of trees bordering.
I'd use a cement mixer and fast set cement if doing a lot of holes!
Those met post spikes IMHO are a nightmare. Really hard to drive in straight and deform easily.
Oh and have a look at the wickes pdf files online for decking and fencing. Good free resource!

 

[drliamski]

They work okay and can, for a small run of fencing work out cheaper than buying lots of oddball tools that you won't use again. They work out expensive for large fences though. I use tools and a bag of postcrete - nothing shifts my posts I think there are also fittings available to bolt into a brick wall to hold a post.

All worth considering - no point shelling out on tools you won't use twice.

Frame fixings or thru bolts for fixing posts to walls!

 

[davidpingu]

I'm a noob to it too mate, but have quite a bit of kit and some to set up still (Radial Arm Saw for example). I also have a mid-level table saw that i'll want to move on (almost new), as I want a bandsaw eventually and have limited space in a single garage.
You're only a few miles away
Nick

Thanks, feel free to drop me a PM with some pictures although I expect it will be a couple months yet before I get one!

 

[davidpingu]

I am a bit of a dab hand at fencing as am a landscape gardener! Best fencing by far is with post and rail. Batton fencing always looks nice and contemporary. Closeboard (featheredge) for a solid fence.

Tools wise what's covered above, possibly a mutt for cutting through roots if lots of trees bordering.
I'd use a cement mixer and fast set cement if doing a lot of holes!
Those met post spikes IMHO are a nightmare. Really hard to drive in straight and deform easily.
Oh and have a look at the wickes pdf files online for decking and fencing. Good free resource!

Thanks for the advice on the spikes. They sound best avoided. There may be no need for driving the posts in to the ground either by the sounds of it, if I have a solid brick wall to work with. I'm just about to put some pictures up for a better idea...

 

[davidpingu]

Ok so here goes...

Quite embarrassed about these but we've only been in just over a year and most of our efforts have been on the house itself.

The yard is really letting the rest of the house down now though and I'd like it to be an area I can spend a lot more time in whatever the weather. Just to make this even more depressing, it very grey and wet out there again this morning!...



The panel fencing came down in recent storms but I hate them anyway. Looks like they were just screwed in to rotten fencing.

Notice how the wall is all sorts of levels too, not just one height right the way around, its quite annoying! It's also stepped out, or in at several points so not only is it varying heights but its also at varying lines.



The current gate which isn't very secure at all. The brick wall is a bit of an eye sore too, just looks untidy so my idea was for the fencing to go to the floor on the inside of the wall to improve the appearance from within the yard. Hopefully the fence would by much stonger/ more secure too if its to the floor rather just near the top of the wall.

The only problem I have with this idea is it still leaves a high ledge on the outside of the garden for someone to climb up on and get over the fence. Any ideas? Almost need a second layer of fencing to go across on top of the wall to take up the ledge? Hope I'm making sense.



More rotten fencing to come down. This separates us from the neighbours but there are some decent holly tree's there and a low down wire fence which I'd say is sufficient for this lot to come down and not to be replaced.



The current brick shed and lean to area which is the only storage we have currently so there's all sorts chucked in there at the moment. Once we have more storage space I intend to use a nice section of kitchen worktop I have in there as a small work shop but I've been hanging on for some kitchen cabinets if any come up as used for next to nothing. If I get bored though I may try and just drum up a basic frame with some shelving I can lay the worktop across the top. The shed has power but will obviously be no good for cutting long sections of wood due to space.

Finally here is just a very basic plan I have in my head of how I want things to look with a nice undercover living area at the back of the garden (the unpaved area in the first picture).



For now the fence is the main priority so idea's again for the right sort of application please guys.

Thanks

 

[British Red]

It would be quite useful to relate each of those photos to your plan and to add a compass rose to the plan - is North at the top? Makes a huge difference for your growing areas.

There is a security theme to your posts - which I completely understand. Here's the thing, fencing is not going to keep scrotes out. You aren't allowed to use spike strips, razor wire or anything like that so at best you get concealment. a 6' fence that is strong won't keep anyone out for long - I can vault one in under 3 seconds.

I raise this because, if you want security, get more creative. The way to keep people off that brick wall is to cover it in trellis and then grow a vigorous, spiky climbing plant over the trellis. A hedging rose as an example. I grow dog roses and rambling roses through the hedges I plant. They are vicious things - far more so than barbed wire. Would look great too - and have pretty flowers