New MOLLE vs. Karrimor SF Sabre 45 - worth a change?

[Squidders]

I thought the under/over weave method of attaching stuff would be very secure, I'm still open to first hand experience saying they're wobbly though. On the flip side, I was only going to attach a first aid kit on the back, an axe on the side and a water bottle where the hip belt joins the main pack.

Most of the commercial packs seem to be very tall, like alpine packs, great for alpine but I remember having a very nice lowe alpine pack that was tall and I was always hitting branches I was ducking under and falling over... it's fun at first but the fun ends soon after. Another trait of commercial packs is they are either ultra light, ultra expensive and I would feel bad about chucking it around.

If the MOLLE is indeed a bad option, i'll just stick with the 45 I guess but I need empirical evidence to support it.

 

[snozz]

This is worth a read through if you're thinking of a system like Dans... http://www.trailquest.net/BRpackless.html

 

[santaman2000]

I can't speak for the comfort of the pack & frame system as I've never worn one. I do know that they're heavy (like all surplus systems) but solidly built (like all surplus systems) and that the MOLLE weave is tight and not prone to shifting about when properly woven.

I suppose the question might be; if you get one and don't like it, can you sell it on fairly easily without major loss? Of course, if you DO like it, it won't matter.

 

[MertzMan]

I don't have personal experience of the MOLLE backpack, but do have a few pouches that weave onto the PALS ladder system. I've never found them to wobble around as long as they're woven in correctly. I've been able to pick up my loaded 90L bag set for winter camping by a molle pouch that's been woven on correctly and shake it, no harm done, nothing comes off.

The buttons on some of the older Molle pouches can have weaker/worn buttons in my experience but even these stay woven on just fine.

 

[mousey]

Figure out what volume pack you need, and then get one that fits all your gear. QUOTE]

That is the difficult bit. Obviously I'll need more or less stuff if I'm going out for a few hours walk, or a day and night, or weekend, or week, or longer. Either by myself or with other dependants who I may have to carry gear for.

I would have to have a whole range of backpacks to suit each occasion. The advantage of a frame and modular system [from my point of view] is it can be adapted to carry as much/ as little as I want, in as many or few pouches/ bags as I want.

 

[Rich.H]

Figure out what volume pack you need, and then get one that fits all your gear. QUOTE]

That is the difficult bit. Obviously I'll need more or less stuff if I'm going out for a few hours walk, or a day and night, or weekend, or week, or longer. Either by myself or with other dependants who I may have to carry gear for.

I would have to have a whole range of backpacks to suit each occasion. The advantage of a frame and modular system [from my point of view] is it can be adapted to carry as much/ as little as I want, in as many or few pouches/ bags as I want.

I find that you really only need two pack sizes, a 25-30lt and a 50-60lt. If you get ones with compression straps then you can squash them down when too big. You might need a larger one if carrying other folks gear but that still means no more than 3 packs.

 

[rg598]

Figure out what volume pack you need, and then get one that fits all your gear. QUOTE]

That is the difficult bit. Obviously I'll need more or less stuff if I'm going out for a few hours walk, or a day and night, or weekend, or week, or longer. Either by myself or with other dependants who I may have to carry gear for.

I would have to have a whole range of backpacks to suit each occasion. The advantage of a frame and modular system [from my point of view] is it can be adapted to carry as much/ as little as I want, in as many or few pouches/ bags as I want.

The whole modular approach sounds great in theory, but doesn't work that well in practice in my experience. You end up with a huge heavy frame with a day pack attached to it half the time. No one pack will do everything for you.

In terms of movement and the MOLLE system, there are two issues. With the earlier versions the frame it was too soft, so it didn't offer enough support. They modified it later. How it performs will depend on what generation frame you get. The other issue with movement that I was talking about is the movement of all the attachments. You can indeed secure them fairly well, but it all depends on what you have strapped onto the frame. These are all separate compartments (assuming we keep it modular), attached to an external frame. It will never be as securely held as a single pack and you will feel the difference for sure.

As far as tall alpine packs getting in the way when walking through the bush, the MOLLE is in no way better. Volume is volume. It either has to go up or to the sides. Either will get in the way.

I own a 62L pack that I use for everything from weekend trips to week long trips. For extremely cold weather or longer trips I have a 80L pack. There is no pack that will accommodate everything from a day trip to a two week trip with gear for three people. You can get a pack that is suited for one of the extremes, but it will look ridiculous at the other extreme, MOLLE or not.

 

[Squidders]

OK OK OK - I think I need to re-focus this a little... Not that I can or want to restrict what people say on here, the thread is in the public domain and not my property... but.

I do know how to pack a bag and have done for many years now. I'm not too proud to learn more or improve but some of the advice is a bit egg suckingly basic and very general.
I do quite well with my Karrimor Sabre 65 in every season. If you need a few packs for your activities, I'm happy for you but I still do very well with one.
I would be buying a current generation MOLLE system which would not suffer with a floppy frame and not strapping fifty things to the outside of it. As mentioned I would have the main pack, just like every other rucksack on the market and a few pouches and that's all. No kitchen sinks. No 12 mags of ammo. No field butchered deer.
Pack volume is not pack volume, It's not that simple and an alpine pack sticking up overhead is harder to judge for me than something roughly the same width as me. My pack has less volume than a scaffolding pole but I know which is easier to carry through dense woodland.
I really do appreciate the advice, I know I might sound a bit off in this post but I didn't want to go down the bag packing 101 route.

At the moment, as nobody has had any long term first-hand experience of the pack, I might just have to get one and see what it's like.

 

[rg598]

Seems like you have already made up your mind, but if you are still reading, here are the answers to your specific questions:

Hi All,

So, some starter questions, how useful in size are the modular sections? Is there a compression part that will hold a winter sleeping bag? Is the pack comfy over long distances? Does it adjust or do I need to look for a specific size?

...how useful in size are the modular sections?

You get one large sleeping bag compartment compatible with the US MSS and one large compartment on top. I find the sleeping bag compartment to not be very useful for smaller (normal) sleeping bags, as it will be largely empty, and you will have to either stuff other things in your sleeping bag compartment or try to strap it down. The top compartment is too rectangular for my purposes, bringing the weight of the pack when full too far back from your body.

Is there a compression part that will hold a winter sleeping bag?

There is a sleeping bag compartment on the bottom, but it is not a compression compartment itself. It uses the compression sack that comes with the MSS.

Is the pack comfy over long distances?

Like any pack, it is comfortable when it is empty. When it is full, it is not comfortable, especially when compared to commercial packs.

Does it adjust or do I need to look for a specific size?

It adjusts as much as any Army issue piece of equipment will allow. It is no where comparable to the adjustment capability of a Gregory pack system for example. As far as I know, there are no different sizes issued.

I've used the pack short term, and I do not like it (the reason I have not used in long term). It has no benefits over any other pack, and quite a few disadvantages. It's only strong point is that you can keep loading the system with more and more gear, something which you have stated you are not interested in. If on the other hand you just want one because you like the way it looks, then by all means. There are some well priced surplus ones on ebay.

 

[Squidders]

Of course i'm still reading and I appreciate your answers. Thanks, really.

The Gregory pack looks quite inventive but the way I cram stuff in tight, looks like one zone will make it hard to get at others. My sleeping bag is huge in the winter and takes up the lions share of the 45 main body (I do like a good nights sleep). The thickness of the MOLLE pack is something that worries me, if it sticks out the back loads, I don't fancy that.

I know the sleeping bag compartment unzips internally so you can have one large volume instead of two and that as well as the zip, there are eyelets that allow you to take strain off the zip - that I like because my winter bag is probably bigger than the US issue one. I guess as a compartment I could get my hammock, under quilt and top quilt inside during the warmer months. which I also like.

As you say, there are pro's and con's... as for comfort, I maybe was unreasonable to ask because that depends on the owners weight, size and frame and is a very personal thing. I do know that I'm not really interested in any other pack at the moment, either because they are far too expensive or an annoying shape (to me). The real crappy part is that the packs on ebay are dirt cheap but the postage doubles the cost overall. It's why i'm umming and arring in the first place, if I only had domestic postage to pay I would probably just have got one without even thinking it... let alone over thinking it as I have been.

Damn you Americans for making lots of kit I like the look of.

 

[santaman2000]

LOL. There's a similar problem with getting British or European kit over here. Although having Canada as a neighbor does ease that problem sometimes.

 

[dean4442]

Just an idea, but would something like these be any good?
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=47472&page=6
http://libertytreeblogs.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/building-hellcat-hybrid-ruck-from-us.html

It's pretty much what I use for the summer as the frame keeps my back cool and stops that big patch of sweat the PLCE pack causes.
Colin