Nelson Mandela
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He wasn't perfect (never pretended to be) and he was involved in an armed struggle against a brutal, oppressive and unjust regime. What marks him out for me was that he publicly forgave his captors on release from prison, an example which allowed a new South Africa to exist and avoided much bloodshed. So, for me, he was one of the very, very few heroic figures of modern times.
mee too.
Ghandi and mandella where leaders, but at this very time he is being made out to be a virtual prophet. No one ever seems to remember he didn't really wish the events to occour, and was a creation of his environment. I feel sorry for him like I feel sorry for other prople who become figureheads almost against their will (celebrity culture). He himself was a nice man, but this idolism creates a power inbalance and only leads to problems in the future.
Somewhat relevent I remember a few yrs ago drinking in my local the day Nelson Mandela visited Bedford
My mate Claire was drinking and threatened t streak him..
Dont ever say I bet you won't to Claire is what I learnt. ...
My mate Claire was drinking and threatened t streak him..
Dont ever say I bet you won't to Claire is what I learnt. ...
It is a privilege to have been alive at the same time as him and to be old enough to have been witness to the struggle in which he succeeded against the odds. His major triumph was to bring reconciliation when bloodshed and horror were seemingly inevitable.
His example should be the touchstone for all politicians.
Not perfect? He was a human being.
His example should be the touchstone for all politicians.
Not perfect? He was a human being.
This, in spades.
Anyone can remain angry and aggressive. To pull together so many groups who were in conflict, to lead by example; that is what made him great.
He was a great person , very humble man that loved children and did wonders for our country , I have had the great pleasure of meeting him and spending personal time with him .
Ngabiza igama lakho Madiba .
Ngabiza igama lakho Madiba .
It's nothing like the IRA. Black south africans were systematically brutalised under the apartheid regime of Botha. They tried peaceful resistance and it ended up with 60 people being shot.
Mind you, I did hear that he had a cat called Botha, and used to eat tins of tuna in front of it without sharing. 
I like to think it was guilt that made him play the peacemaker - after all, he had the blood of many innocent women and children on his hands. Ironically, most of them were black - thats the problem with indiscriminate bombing.
The phrase that comes to mind now is "Apres moi, la deluge". Many whites in SA saw him a a barrier between them and the worst excesses of a Zimbabwe situation - I'm betting that there will be a major outflow of whites now.
The phrase that comes to mind now is "Apres moi, la deluge". Many whites in SA saw him a a barrier between them and the worst excesses of a Zimbabwe situation - I'm betting that there will be a major outflow of whites now.
As long as it doesn't get locked I think this thread is a healthy discussion.
All of the media outlets are deifying him.
All of the media outlets are deifying him.
Political change of that magnitude usually involves a combination of the sword and the olive branch. There are two generally accepted tests of whether violence can be justified: firstly, are the goals achievable? Violence without hope of success cannot be justified, if it becomes apparent that violence will not work it is immoral to continue inflicting it. Second, picking the right time to sheath the sword and offer the olive branch.
On both those counts, both Mandela and De Klerk score reasonably well. There were of course many other factors such as economic and diplomatic isolation, as well as the threat of violence, which helped push the minority-rule government into finding a peaceful solution - there is a very good film called 'Endgame' which details this quite well.
On both those counts, both Mandela and De Klerk score reasonably well. There were of course many other factors such as economic and diplomatic isolation, as well as the threat of violence, which helped push the minority-rule government into finding a peaceful solution - there is a very good film called 'Endgame' which details this quite well.
I was still in England when Madela was becoming known to the world. Of course at the time it was jis struggle and his positive attributes that were in the news. It wasn't until at least a decade later that his darker side came to light.
As others have said, he was a man, not a saint. But he did accomplish much and is to be admired for that. As to how much bad he was associated with? Well, we'll never really know in our generation; the emotions of the chroniclers are still too high. History will likely tell the whole story after the emotions have subsided.
As for now, I prefer to remember the good he did. There'll be time enough for critisism later. Right now, the world needs heros more than villains. If the popular view is romanticized, so what?
As others have said, he was a man, not a saint. But he did accomplish much and is to be admired for that. As to how much bad he was associated with? Well, we'll never really know in our generation; the emotions of the chroniclers are still too high. History will likely tell the whole story after the emotions have subsided.
As for now, I prefer to remember the good he did. There'll be time enough for critisism later. Right now, the world needs heros more than villains. If the popular view is romanticized, so what?
Its interesting looking back on that period - I believe that if you want to single out a figure who brought about a relatively peaceful power shift, Desmond Tutu and his advocacy for disinvestment had a much more material (and far less bloody) effect than the activities of Mandela's Umkhonto we Sizwe. He was also preaching reconciliation way back in the apartheid days. He is still active on the big issues - HIV and TB, contraception and women's rights amongst them.
The reason for mentioning Tutu is to point out that others were instrumental in South African change - and more effective - without the need for bombs and bullets.
The reason for mentioning Tutu is to point out that others were instrumental in South African change - and more effective - without the need for bombs and bullets.
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