Moot vs Mute?

[John Fenna]

Let me add some confusion: what does "moot" mean?
My dictionary says that the English meaning is "object to debate, dispute, or uncertainty: Whether the temparature rise was mainly due to the greenhouse effect was a moot point"
while the North American meaning is: "having little or no practical relevance: The whole matter is becoming increasingly moot".

I only knew the English meaning, but all over de innerned I see the North American one. Is the English one still being used?

Ah - in England - and most of the rest of Britain - we speak "English" ...in America - and much of the 'civilised world' (civilised) they speak ENGLISH.
One should never think of them as the same thing.
It is a moot point whether English will survive or not.
The last sentence can be read as English or ENGLISH.....
It only realy matters to English speakers and lovers of the language (a word devised from French) anyway.....

 

[TallMikeM]

Let me add some confusion: what does "moot" mean?
My dictionary says that the English meaning is "object to debate, dispute, or uncertainty: Whether the temparature rise was mainly due to the greenhouse effect was a moot point"
while the North American meaning is: "having little or no practical relevance: The whole matter is becoming increasingly moot".

I only knew the English meaning, but all over de innerned I see the North American one. Is the English one still being used?

that's a good question, the English version is the techinally correct one, however it is most usually used (rightly or wrongly) in the american context. As languages are an evolving concept then I suspect the american version will become the "correct" one.

 

[Martyn]

Let me add some confusion: what does "moot" mean?
My dictionary says that the English meaning is "object to debate, dispute, or uncertainty: Whether the temparature rise was mainly due to the greenhouse effect was a moot point"
while the North American meaning is: "having little or no practical relevance: The whole matter is becoming increasingly moot".

I only knew the English meaning, but all over de innerned I see the North American one. Is the English one still being used?

I've always understood it to mean "having little or no practical relevance: The whole matter is becoming increasingly moot", which you describe as the American meaning. But if you look at the actual meaning "to be debated and decided at a meeting" then you can see how both definitions can be derivations of that. In other words, "it's not necessary to decide this now, so it's an issue that can be saved for the meeting" or "we cant agree on this now, so we should postpone it for the meeting". In both cases, the issue or point would be saved for the moot. This is really why I posted this, I bet even those people who knew the correct word was moot, didn't make the connection to the Anglo-Saxon word for meeting - I know I didnt until very recently and when I found out, it was a head-slap moment. Outside of that phrase, moot is a word that is almost never used in English any more, it's archaic and practically extinct as a term on it's own. Tolkein resurrected it in it's original form for LotR and his "Ent moot", which has been borrowed by BcUK as a working title for the bush moot, but aside from that it's almost unheard in that context.

 

[John Fenna]

I've always understood it to mean "having little or no practical relevance: The whole matter is becoming increasingly moot", which you describe as the American meaning. But if you look at the actual meaning "to be debated and decided at a meeting" then you can see how both definitions can be derivations of that. In other words, "it's not necessary to decide this now, so it's an issue that can be saved for the meeting" or "we cant agree on this now, so we should postpone it for the meeting". In both cases, the issue or point would be saved for the moot. This is really why I posted this, I bet even those people who knew the correct word was moot, didn't make the connection to the Anglo-Saxon word for meeting - I know I didnt until very recently and when I found out, it was a head-slap moment. Outside of that phrase, moot is a word that is almost never used in English any more, it's archaic and practically extinct as a term on it's own. Tolkein resurrected it in it's original form for LotR and his "Ent moot", which has been borrowed by BcUK as a working title for the bush moot, but aside from that it's almost unheard in daily use.

Some of us knew!
Moots were generally meetings where Political /comunity afairs were discussed by the elders and the wise - not the average members of the public.
I did not realise that BCUK had borrowed from LoTR here - I just thought that the level of education of the Founder was very good....
Actually I still think that!

Moot = meeting
Hence you get Moot Halls - where Moots were held!

 

[TallMikeM]

I must confess that even tho I know the correct meaning of the word (and yes, where it is derived from as well) and have known for a long time, I still mostly use it in the american context. Guess that's mostly cos I can't be bothered to lecture people on the correct use of the word when they try to correct me for using it "incorrectly". I may not be mellowing with age, but I certainly am becoming lazier...

 

[Martyn]

I must confess that even tho I know the correct meaning of the word (and yes, where it is derived from as well) and have known for a long time, I still mostly use it in the american context. Guess that's mostly cos I can't be bothered to lecture people on the correct use of the word when they try to correct me for using it "incorrectly". I may not be mellowing with age, but I certainly am becoming lazier...

I'm not lecturing anybody Mike, I'm interested in language, I find the origins of words fascinating and I know others do too. I dare say some people might feel "lectured" but that's not going to stop me being interested or too wary of offending people to discuss it. I guess my feeling on that is that if people are not interested, they can read another thread about something they are interested in. It's good that you knew the origin of the phrase, until recently I didn't and I wouldn't of minded you telling me, one bit.

 

[Martyn]

Some of us knew!
Moots were generally meetings where Political /comunity afairs were discussed by the elders and the wise - not the average members of the public.
I did not realise that BCUK had borrowed from LoTR here - I just thought that the level of education of the Founder was very good....
Actually I still think that!

Moot = meeting
Hence you get Moot Halls - where Moots were held!

I dont think I'd ever heard the term before reading LotR - I knew that moot-point was such, but I didnt relate it to anything in particular. Reading LotR, I got it from the context, but didnt make the connection.

I think there is a thread somewhere, where everyone is discussing what to call the first meeting, I think it might have been Toddy who came up with the suggestion of "bush-moot", I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

[Martyn]

Ahhhh, it was actually maddave who came up with it....

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3317&page=1

 

[John Fenna]

Ahhhh, it was actually maddave who came up with it....

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3317&page=1

No doubting his eduction!

 

[Hoodoo]

Some of us knew!
Moots were generally meetings where Political /comunity afairs were discussed by the elders and the wise - not the average members of the public.
I did not realise that BCUK had borrowed from LoTR here - I just thought that the level of education of the Founder was very good....
Actually I still think that!

Moot = meeting
Hence you get Moot Halls - where Moots were held!

The solution would be to change the spelling of moot to meet. "It's a meet point." Or change "meeting" to "mooting."

 

[TallMikeM]

The solution would be to change the spelling of moot to meet. "It's a meet point." Or change "meeting" to "mooting."

hmmm, good idea except we'd all end up sounding like a reject from 'allo 'allo.

 

[John Fenna]

Ah yes but how would you moot a question - that is put a question to discussion ....

"The proposition that BCUK regularly meets at the Moot Hall it might meet in at the Moot was mooted at the last meet"

if you replace "meet" with "moot" and vice-versa....

 

[Hoodoo]

Ah yes but how would you moot a question - that is put a question to discussion ....

"The proposition that BCUK regularly meets at the Moot Hall it might meet in at the Moot was mooted at the last meet"

if you replace "meet" with "moot" and vice-versa....

Meaty questions worth considering...i.e., not moot...or meet....

 

[Melonfish]

My head hurts.... :twak: