moccasins

[walkswithnomoccasins]

have found some interesting information on the shoe pak was basicly a cetre seam moccasin attached to a leather sole they were used very often by trappers and rifleman upto the mid 19th century

 

[forestwalker]

I wonder if you could cross a moccasin with a roman sandal?

Basically that is what a caligae is; a center seam (lacing, but anyway) moc with a thick sole. But the "shoe" bit has to be form fairly tough leather, or the sole will flop around. IIRC we are talking about 1 cm thick sole and probably 3 mm uppers.

For quick moc-like shoes I like the early turn shoes; "oval" peice, heel seam, lacing. The result is early iron age(ish), but works fine and takes very little time. If walking on forest trails mocs can last over a week, on a dirt road or asphalt less than a day.

 

[Le Loup]

have found some interesting information on the shoe pak was basicly a cetre seam moccasin attached to a leather sole they were used very often by trappers and rifleman upto the mid 19th century

Funny you should mention the shoepac, I was thinking last night that I would like to go back and read up on the shoepac. I will google it today.
Le Loup.

 

[Wayland]

I never saw the TV series but did get the book on Surviving the Iron Age. A bunch of people were picked to live for several weeks as residents of a typical Iron Age village. They learned about their "mocs" (early Iron Age shoe versions) and how fast they wear out - especially on graveled paths. And how "cold" their feet got being so wet/damp all the time. They even mentioned in the book how many of the people wouldn't give up their Wellington rubber boots - except when the camera was on.

In defence of "Authentic shoes" I would just say that i know the person who made the shoes for that program.

He was supplied with a pattern and materials that were completely incorrect.

When he turned around and said "These shoes are wrong and will not work" the reply from the producers was "Yes, we know, but that's how we want them."

 

[Mesquite]

In defence of "Authentic shoes" I would just say that i know the person who made the shoes for that program.

He was supplied with a pattern and materials that were completely incorrect.

When he turned around and said "These shoes are wrong and will not work" the reply from the producers was "Yes, we know, but that's how we want them."

And how many times have we heard of examples like that.

TV producers don't want things to run smoothly. They want to create artificial problems so it causes stress and friction amongst the group as they think that makes for good tv viewing.

 

[Le Loup]

In defence of "Authentic shoes" I would just say that i know the person who made the shoes for that program.

He was supplied with a pattern and materials that were completely incorrect.

When he turned around and said "These shoes are wrong and will not work" the reply from the producers was "Yes, we know, but that's how we want them."

Much the same thing happened with the shoepack apparently, only without the movie part. Some guy, who's name I won't mention, published the wrong pattern, also misrepresented it's use, in so much as only one original so called shoepack was ever found. Anyway it was interesting but I am sticking to my woodland centre seam moccasins.
Le Loup.

 

[Le Loup]

And how many times have we heard of examples like that.

TV producers don't want things to run smoothly. They want to create artificial problems so it causes stress and friction amongst the group as they think that makes for good tv viewing.

I think what happens is that the producer has an idea in his head of what should happen, or what something should look like. This very often has more to do with popular fiction than it does with reality. Take the Last of the Mohicans for instance, great movie, but it could have been even better at no extra cost had they stuck to the reality of the times. Having said that, how many people that saw the movie do you think would know about the F & I War period equipment and clothing? Probably not many, but to us 18th century Living Historians these mistakes stood out like a sore thumb!
Le Loup.

 

[forestwalker]

I think what happens is that the producer has an idea in his head of what should happen, or what something should look like. This very often has more to do with popular fiction than it does with reality..

That is the standard peril of having reneators as extras in a movie; you may end up with extras wearing better clothes than the stars.

 

[Le Loup]

I agree Forestwalker but at the same time it must save them a lot of money.
Have you ever worn real moccasins Forestwalker? Mostly one walks toe first, but sometimes on the side or heel. When walking down hill however one walks toe first. In The Last of the Mohicans when they have capitulated and are leaving the fort, Natty Bumpo and Indians are walking heel first! That is because they are wearing modern runners with moccasin tops!
Le Loup.

 

[forestwalker]

I agree Forestwalker but at the same time it must save them a lot of money.
Have you ever worn real moccasins Forestwalker?

Sure have. I've spent a lot of my youth going barefoot during summer, still do when suitable, and have worn mocs (and various Iron Age shoes with moccasin like construction), both in urban like conditions and out in the woods. In many ways they are my preferred style, unless it is quite wet or I carry a heavy pack. Unfortunately they are not terribly good most of the time in my part of the world; the taiga is wet most of the time, and you end up spending a lot of time drying mocs. During summer my solution sometimes is to go barefoot when it is wet, saving the mocs for drier bits.

I think one reason for the movies to do it is that unless you are used to it they's get a lot of retakes as stars step on something hard and stumble.

Mostly one walks toe first, but sometimes on the side or heel. When walking down hill however one walks toe first. In The Last of the Mohicans when they have capitulated and are leaving the fort, Natty Bumpo and Indians are walking heel first! That is because they are wearing modern runners with moccasin tops!

I've done both, and sometimes the "digging your heels in" style is quite usefull going downhill if it is steep.