Moan and rant after several glasses of Vino!

[British Red]

Not so much on Loch Lomond though, they had to bring back laws there I hear.

Personally, having seen the damage done in many members permissions and private woods, I have complete sympathy for the landowners - no com[pensation is paid to the landowner for the litter, destruction and vandalism

 

[jimbo75]

I agree with the above sentiments, right to roam can't work in England, it would soon be a mess. Sometimes you gotta pay to play. That could be a trip to Wales or Scotland or a flight to somewhere Scandinavian. You'll love it I'm sure, something to really remember. That said, don't give up on the canoeing too easily either. I've managed to spend some time paddling a local river and the canals recently and it's been great. Still wildlife to see, it doesn't take long to feel your miles from town and when you are in town it's a completely different spin to what you normally see. Different to the Wye of course but still fun. Where there's a will there's a way! 'Bushcraft' to me is making the most of what you have wherever you're at...

Pay to play! I like that.. How true!

 

[Bucephalas]

I 'spect you've seen the Environment Agency Guide to the Wye online in pdf (reprinted 2011) here
Good tips for land and launch points.

That one had escaped me. Thanks for the link

 

[Bucephalas]

'Bushcraft' to me is making the most of what you have wherever you're at...

Ahmen to that!

 

[boatman]

Pay to play! I like that.. How true!

In America it appalled me the limitations and charges to natural attractions in California and neighbouring states. If you are happy to pay to walk on Dartmoor then good luck. It was a Tory Party idea they floated a bit back.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/feesandreservations.htm

 

[789987]

the way i see it - its a lot like the gun laws.

if youre the sort of person who goes and causes damage and generally abuses the area - youre going to do it anyway regardless of the law

if youre the sort of person who is conscientious and respectful and wouldnt cause a problem - you wont do it due to the legality of the matter

in scotland the areas that have issues with damage and litter etc tend to be the places that you can drive up to. would there be a mass exodus of rabble into the countryside if the laws were changed in england? i doubt it. people would go to the same places they do now for bbq's and the like.

 

[British Red]

Sounds like a great idea if the money goes into a benevolent fund to finance stiles, clean ups, replacement for damaged trees, Dartmoor rescue etc. Seems much fairer than some poor farmer having to tidy up after what is, at the end of the day, just a hobby. I've never quite understtof how its fair for someone else to have to pay out for another persons leisure. If people want to play golf, or water ski or whatever, they pay for the privilege. I don't see why canoeing has more merit than, for instance, geneology.

 

[789987]

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/bispar..._a_review_of_densities_trends_experiences.pdf

shows the density of population. theres plenty of empty areas for people who are so inclined. particularly in wales.

 

[boatman]

We all pay for the maintenance of rivers through our taxes. You would charge for the limited access to the canoeing water that there is? And how much for paddling in the water at Dartmeet for example, flat rate or by the hour? That is children and adults putting their feet in it and splashing about.

 

[Adze]

We all pay for the maintenance of rivers through our taxes.

First I've heard of it.

You would charge for the limited access to the canoeing water that there is? And how much for paddling in the water at Dartmeet for example, flat rate or by the hour? That is children and adults putting their feet in it and splashing about.

As much as the market will bear, much the same as with other watersports. A good example would be fishing - how about a fixed licence fee per annum payable to the EA and a day/season/syndicate ticket payable to whoever controls the access/sporting rights to the water. It works for fishing, why not canoeing?

 

[boatman]

One takes nothing from the water when canoeing. Not quite right, myself and friends took considerable quantities of litter and fishing tackle complete with drowned ducks from rivers and I am sure that canoeist and other watercraft users still do.
A canoe is a means of transport, like your feet. I suppose walking should include a charge by your twisted logic? I understand the petty mentality that resents the idea of someone getting "something for nothing" but cannot agree with it.

 

[mountainm]

Can we quit with the fisherman V canoeist argument. It's a tired old one and it will go nowhere. You may as well just mention Hitler and get it over with.

 

[Retired Member southey]

Can we quit with the fisherman V canoeist argument. It's a tired old one and it will go nowhere. You may as well just mention Hitler and get it over with.

OR

THE HITLER FISH!

 

[mountainm]

Or Hitler in a canoe

 

[Retired Member southey]

Sweet hitler in a canoe pic duuuuuuuuuuude!

 

[East Coaster]

If you fancy walking or canoeing anywhere down in England, then just go ahead and do it (obviously avoiding peoples gardens etc).
You're not breaking any laws. It's only a problem if you are asked to leave and refuse to do so. Even then it's unlikely the police would be bothered. How many cases of tresspassing have you ever come across against people going out for a walk? Has there ever been anyone done for canoeing down a 'private' river?

 

[Andy BB]

If I remember correctly from my law studies in the 70s, trespass is a civil, not criminal, offense (so "Trespassers will be prosecuted" is factually wrong). The only recourse a landowner has is to sue for damages - if no damage caused, no problem and no civil case. However, refusing to vacate private land when asked to do so is I believe a whole different ball-game. As are local byelaws restricting access, so I guess we're back to square one!

 

[andybysea]

The water isnt owned by the land owner only the land on either side, once your on the water you cant be asked to leave by the person who owns land on either side.