military equipment: help needed

[Bjorn Victor]

hello all,

I am looking for a wide military belt, some shoulder straps that attach to the belt (= shoulder yoke?) and pockets. For pockets, I want a bigger one on the back ("buttpack") (for poncho, spare socks,...) and for the rest, some smaller pockets of variable size (for waterbottles, tinder, fire steel, SAK, compass, some food bars...).

I want to use it as a replacement for a daypack. If possible green would be great. No camo patterns.

I need to start from scratch. Can you guys recommed some online stores with good reputation that sell these things? Any brands you can recommend? What brand is the real thing (= issued to military forces)?

Also: here in belgium, I can buy a M65 jacket, but they look so big and puffy! The brands most found here are Fostex and Alpha Industries. Anyone heard of these? Are they the real thing?

Many thanks!!

Bjorn

 

[Ogri the trog]

Hi Bjorn,
It's a big and very emotive subject.
I know about the British '58 pattern webbing. It is green and has the belt and yoke that you mention, but needs a twin pocket "kidney pouch" to hold the yoke to the belt. Other pouches/carriers can be added as you want but I don't think it is as flexible as the modern ALICE or PLCE systems. They'll be more expensive though.
Try somewhere like Silvermans to get a look at what you think you might want then look further for cheaper places to buy from.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[addyb]

Yes, Alpha Industries are the real thing. As far as I know, they're one of the few companies in the US that make their combat clothing to exact military specs.

Go for it!

Adam

 

[gregorach]

Try Strikeforce. It's all genuine kit, and they've got at least some OD stuff. Might be worth phoning - they may have some odds and sods of OD kit that isn't on the site, but it's getting harder to find these days.

I use some PLCE kit, and it's pretty good. You can fit a suprising amount in one of those ammo pouches. For a buttpack, have a look at the S10 respirator pouch - I've heard good things about them, been meaning to pick one up for a while.

Endicott's down in Exeter are another good surplus shop, but they don't have online ordering. The contact details are on the forum somewhere, and Kevin is a good bloke to deal with.

 

[Bjorn Victor]

thanks!!

I'll see what I can find.

Bjorn

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

I'm sure the belgian army used to have a webbing system almost identical to british 58" (OG canvas), i would imagine there is a surplus shop somewhere near you!

as well as british webbing don't forget your nieghbours, germany, france, both have pretty good systems and it'll be easier for you to find!

best thing to do is actually get hold of some and see what you think, there are many variations on the theme i have owned and used 6 different types of webbing myself each has pros and cons.
the modern types are going to be man made so waterproof, and light but will melt!
the older types will be heavier and not so waterproof but will be very tough!

by the way i spent a holiday in belgium, Bruge i think it was very nice! great city, and chocolates! but loads of mossies.

 

[Martyn]

hello all,

I am looking for a wide military belt, some shoulder straps that attach to the belt (= shoulder yoke?) and pockets. For pockets, I want a bigger one on the back ("buttpack") (for poncho, spare socks,...) and for the rest, some smaller pockets of variable size (for waterbottles, tinder, fire steel, SAK, compass, some food bars...).

I want to use it as a replacement for a daypack. If possible green would be great. No camo patterns.

I need to start from scratch. Can you guys recommed some online stores with good reputation that sell these things? Any brands you can recommend? What brand is the real thing (= issued to military forces)?

Also: here in belgium, I can buy a M65 jacket, but they look so big and puffy! The brands most found here are Fostex and Alpha Industries. Anyone heard of these? Are they the real thing?

Many thanks!!

Bjorn

It's a great concept. I'm trying something sililar myself. Although I generally dont like military kit because you end up looking like a soldier, I'm making an exception for load bearing stuff, because the modular approach is so usefull. Like you though, it'll be a cold day in hell before I wear any camo.

I've just bought a British PLCE belt off ebay and a yoke to go with it. Although I opted for the Arktis yoke, rather than the PLCE issue yoke. My plan is now to get a cheap 35L ruck and cut the shoulder straps off and the belt off, then sew on straps that will allow me to hang the pack off the yoke.

By doing this, I should be able to get around 80L of carrying capacity all fully laden, but totally modular, down to just a belt and pouch if that's what you want. This means you can carry all your load to your camp, then strip it down when you are there. The belt and yoke can be used just on their own for things like hauling logs etc.

It's a great idea.

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

this is my gear i put it on another thread "interesting SAS kit" which you may be interested in heres the link:(the SAS kit thread)

here's my webbing, though i should point out i very rarely use it as a whole set! usually i take 1,2,or 3 pouches depending on what i'm doing. it's a handy way of keeping all my bit's and bob's together, also it is not an issue set! though parts were allowed as we were saying before!(see SAS kit thread)

first photo:
left to right pouch 4 is the only real Arktis pouch, 2/3/5 are all home made, the 2 ammo pouches have been highly adapted
also the yoke is a PLCE webbing yoke again vastly adapted
and the belt is a standard PLCE.

here you can see all the pouches are poppered to the belt and to each other it helps stop webbing bounce! the attatchment is via a strip going under another then poppering, simular to some new american ideas, i've seen an almost identical system on a US marine first aid pouch!

here's the load out,
left to right: first aid/ waterbottle/cooker kit/tarp/food/water +filter/MoD knife/tool pouch
i will happily go into detail about anything if you want.

I'm sure you'll agree it looks like an army webbing set, and depending on how and where you use it people will think you're in the army(or want to be).

best thing is to have a changeable system so you can use single pouches from it if you want! every pouch of mine can be removed and put onto another belt in seconds(apart from the "real" Arktis one with the belt loop!)

 

[Bjorn Victor]

WOW!!! That is some f g impressive kit! It looks really nice. What do you use it for?
If you use it for day trips, why carry a tarp and not a poncho? Will do a better job as rain gear while on the move. Or do you use it for overnight trips? What about a sleeping bag then?

Also, how did you make the bags? Sew them yourself from a piece of nylon, coton,...? I might give that a try myself. Any suggestions/tips/patterns?

I tried to find some stuff here, but most is US gear. Some french or dutch clothes from time to time, but almost nothing european. Not even British gear... All I can find is US gear, but I do not know if it is the real thing or just wannabee army stuff. FOSTEX is see very much (clothes, gear,...).

Thanks very much!!

bjorn

 

[Celt_Ginger]

Try a google search for "Cadet Direct" or "Soldier of Fortune" they both sell British PLCE equiptment, usually in both Olive green and camo.

 

[chewie]

Police kit is cheap and not camo, try niton or nortex. The niton yoke is detachable and quite good. I've also found HM Supplies quite good and cheap, and they do dpm, olive or black.

No affiliation etc.

If I recall correctly, they are all manufacturers and can assist with variation / custom stuff.

 

[Shambling Shaman]

I know about the British '58 pattern webbing. It is green and has the belt and yoke that you mention, but needs a twin pocket "kidney pouch" to hold the yoke to the belt.

You dont need the kidney pouches to conect the yoke - 58 is good stuff you can pick up a full set for about £10 the back pack has a easy on/off that Iv tryed to copy on more then once.
this full set is about £20
http://www.camo.co.uk/webbing.htm
ebay is a good 58 site.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FULL-SET-58-P...yZ112476QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[willie]

You dont need the kidney pouches to conect the yoke - 58 is good stuff you can pick up a full set for about £10 the back pack has a easy on/off that Iv tryed to copy on more then once.
this full set is about £20
http://www.camo.co.uk/webbing.htm
ebay is a good 58 site.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FULL-SET-58-P...yZ112476QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

you need the Ammo pouches...

 

[wingstoo]

You can get away without the ammo pouches as well if you can get the adaptors off a set of 37 patt webbing...http://www.springfields.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=22_127_80&products_id=469&tsl_session_id=53bc59d827611a172abec4171ffb17e3

LS

 

[Shambling Shaman]

you need the Ammo pouches...

or the pistol holster

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

or remove the belt clip from the rear belt clips of another trashed 58" yoke, i did this and i've seen others do it too, i did it so i could used US ALICE ammo pouches insted of the issued 58" ammo pouches!

as for my kit and how to make it, i don't wear it as a whole set in public only if a "long way" from people or on private land, purely because of the social misunderstanding of it's purpose!

the knife is only worn on private land!

as for making it:
(first consider the normal price for a full set of Arktis webbing £120.00)

i based it on Arktis webbing so i used the 2 "real" ammo pouches and waterbottle pouch as a template.
each pouch was carefully measured and carefully checked to see how the pouch went together, ie the tape first then the seam then the popper(very important to get a good finish).

i made each pouch (2,3,5 and yoke) to my specification:

a pouch to carry my crusader cup, cooker, 58 mug, bottle and spoon (i haven't found another that will do the job without rattling or being too tight).

a Butt pack based on the US army version, because i've used them lots and you can cram loads in and carry a poncho under the straps!

and a sheath for my Mod survival Knife, Arktis make one, i took it apart made it stronger,stiffer, and bigger so it goes well with the pouches or as a stand alone sheath and gave it a better adjustable safety strap.

before i could make it i needed fabric this i found in the shape of 2 part factory made, grenade holders(i think) but best of all it was also made by Arktis so the fabric was identical to my origional pouches. that was the last i spent on making my webbing a grand total of £15 :Wow: .

once i had the designs drawn i made them out of paper, this gives you a really good idea of the eventual size!

then came several evenings of sewing most by machine, some by hand, and eventually hammering the poppers into place(about £6 per pack=12 sets)

that's about it really, the rest is patience, and experience.

(just thought i'd say i hated sewing at school!) i'm pretty much self taught!

oh and expect to make mistakes all thread can be un-picked and even poppers and grommits can be removed with pliers and a screwdriver, don't worry!
and buy a spare packet of needles they will break especially on tough fabrics!


have fun!

 

[Bjorn Victor]

Thanks guys!! I will try to buy the belt and yoke, but make some pockets myself.

Bjorn

 

[crazydave]

you can pick up a cheap olive plce set - if you get the proper version the water bottle/utility pouches can be used instead of the ammo pouches as they have the yoke fittings. its possible to fit 7-8 of these in a C shape around the hips.

also look at german surplus as their kit is cheap to get.

 

[Alfa]

Seeing your location is Belgium, try Smits near Emblem. Going international, I've had very good service from John Bull and SOF.

 

[bluemountaingunworks]

Bjorn,
Here in the U.S., surplus ALICE LC-1 and LC-2 gear is dirt cheap. For example, a 30rd M16 magazine pouch is about $3 USD. You can piece together an entire set of 2 ammo pouches, 2 canteen pouches, 2 canteens, canteen cup, buttpack, suspenders(yoke), and compass pouch for about $60 USD. Granted it's all used surplus, but it is still in excellent, serviceable condition.
Surplus, genuine M65's run about $30 USD in OD. I have never heard of the companies you have mentioned. I do not know if they are official U.S. DOD contractors or not. I do know that every piece of U.S. gear(and I mean everything from a compass pouch to an Apache) will only have information printed in military fashion on the ID tag or stamped directly on the item. There will be no commercial looking tags with bright colors or logos of any kind. Sometimes these tags do not even mention the manufacturer; just a numeric code that denotes said manufacturer.
That being said, it is still entirely possible that an exporting outfit here in the States has purchased alot of surplus, affixed their own label, and shipped it overseas to European markets. I don't know that either.
I do have a few vendors that might be able to help you locate U.S. gear if that is what you prefer. Try Brigade Quartermasters, U.S. Cavalry, and just a general search of "U.S. Military Surplus" should turn up thousands of hits that you can sift through. Most of what you find will be genuine U.S.
I will say that out of all the LBE out there I prefer the British '58 over them all; with the exception of a totally custom outfit utilizing the newer MOLLE system. I do a lot of recreational shooting of historical military firearms and I have a set of '58 set up for my M14. I also have a set of ALICE LC-2 set up fpr my M4. Both work fine for those applications. I think I just like good old fashioned canvas better. Plus the '58 mag poches were sized for the L1A1, which is the same caliber as my M14 and they fit nicely. It could also be that I get sick of looking at U.S. stuff all the time and want a little variety.
Good luck with your search and please let me know if I can help you out at all with your selection! God Bless! Jerry