Man dies on wilderness survival course

[Bug Boy]

BOSS Have been around since 1968, setup up by Larry Dean Olsen, the courses have been run in the same vain since that time. As the autopsy hasn't yet been published perhaps its a little too early to judge anyone, also perhaps the student didn't mention something on his medical form that could have been very important information for any instructor.

Thousands of people have attended these courses, myself included, and they do not deprive you of water, they show you where and how to obtain it, but usually students refrain from drinking it in the first few days because it "Doesn't Look Nice" a phase that rapidly passes, perhaps this was the case.

Also ALL instructors are WFR trained as a minimum, as well as experienced in casualty extraction in that environment.

Perhaps we should wait for for more information or even perhaps contact the school directly, instead of becoming like the "Sun" or other UK media and spurting out driblle!

 

[kram245]

Bug boy, good to hear from someone who has done the course. Exactly right, need to wait until there is an autopsy.

 

[BOD]

To your point:

In WW II, the U.S. went to considerable effort to give "desert training" to units about to be sent to open the front in North Africa. The training included "learning" to function with reduced water rations. Follow-on units who had been "deprived" of this training proved tp have significantly better performance.


]

I hope the doctrine has changed. In the early 70s when I was conscripted basic was run on an IDF training doctrine.

For 3 months we were only allowed one standard waterbottle for each days training and (figure this out) it had to last most of the day! At breakfast and meals you could drink 2 mugs in the canteen. If lunch was in the field no water was provided

If you were caught drinking you had to do 20 or 30 or do some running in the high 30s to 40 deg heat.

There was an idea that you did not sit in the shade unleess permission was given (and don't be stupid enough to ask for it)

The corporals were nuts about making the water last as they worried that those who ran out by mid afternoon were likely to go down.

I did one of those survival and foraging for water courses in Australia and while we had to find our water (with no instructors around) it was quite manageable compared to what we did as youngsters

 

[Richardpotts]

I have always found it somewhat ironic that a 'survival' course could put someone's life in danger. Even the SAS consider it a sackable offence to allow yourself to become dehydrated and anyone running a course like this should in turn veer away from this archaic 'macho-man' style of wilderness survival.

Is it possible to consider organisations like this under the term of 'bushcraft' - I think not!

 

[Zammo]

They obviously hadn't watched Jarhead, all they do in that is 'hydrate' every ten minutes.

 

[Tony]

Accidents do happen, we all know that, sometimes they’re the fault of the person affected, sometimes it’s other people or circumstances. If it was negligence then I’m sure that the law will come down hard on the school, I expect that it’s something that they’d not recover from to be honest, it could be the end of BOSS. No matter what it’s going to have a detrimental effect on them, which, if they did noting wrong is a shame as they do have a great reputation.

It will be interesting to hear more in the weeks to come.

 

[TAHAWK]

The fatality was six months ago, but no follow-up stories that I can find. Yesterday's news.

Turns out Buschow died the day after the incident where a 16-year-old girl, Elisa Santry, died on an Outward Bound course:

http://web1.nypost.com/seven/072020...deadly_hell_hike_nationalnews_david_k__li.htm

 

[TAHAWK]

More details.

http://www.uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22690

 

[nobby]

Is it still a survival school if somebody dies?

 

[Greg]

For an experienced school the instructors definately dropped the ball on this one - Extremely irresponsible if you ask me!!

 

[Martyn]

...need to wait until there is an autopsy.

I doubt you'll get more than this...

An autopsy report concluded that Buschow died of dehydration and electrolyte imbalance

Buschow's autopsy report said water was allowed only at designated locations and students were not allowed to carry their own.

Garfield County authorities last week said they would not seek criminal charges in Buschow's death. They said there was "insufficient proof" that the school acted with criminal negligence.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — The U.S. Forest Service wants a wilderness-survival school to get outside advice on safety, medical emergencies and the wisdom of restricting food and water after investigating the death of a New Jersey man who collapsed in the desert last summer.

The Forest Service said it is partially suspending a permit for Boulder Outdoor Survival School in southern Utah until it sees the plan.

"This suspension is not for noncompliance with any of the terms and conditions of the permit, but is being implemented for specific and compelling reasons in the public interest in order to protect public health and safety," Mary Erickson, a forest supervisor, said in a Feb. 6 letter. [my emphasis]

I guess you'll just have to make up your mind from that.

 

[OzaawaaMigiziNini]

I pray for David's family, as well as the families of the staff members of BOSS... they'll all be going through a very stressful time the next few weeks or months.

 

[Wayne]

As an owner of a bushcraft school I have been watching these developments with interest. It is shame that someone has died. However BOSS have never been shy about telling the public the nature of their courses. They are tough beyond belief. I am not sure I would cope. I dont enjoy the heat at the best of times.

It must be a very emotional time for all concerned. I hope lessons are learned so that the risk is reduced but the fundmental experience is maintained. Its a hard balancing act that they try to perform. Full on survival and safety. I hope they suceed in finding a solution.

 

[Minotaur]

First off, it does not sound like they stopped him getting water, but he had to find it. No idea how hard this would be in this terrain.

Both the SEALS and the Royal Marines have had deaths in training like this.

The problem has been explaned really well by what is happening in Iraq to the solidiers over there. Basically, my understanding goes like this, in those conditions if you start full, it is almost impossible to drink enough water to keep full so you have to drink almost constanly. What the military ended up doing was forcing solidiers to drink, because if you drink when you wanted to, you ended up in sick bay.

It is actually scary how little most people know about hydration. In high risk areas, it is not just water but salts and some other things so even with all the water you can drink, you could still die from dehydration because you are not replacing those.

 

[spamel]

A guy suffered in Oman on Saif Sarreea II in 2001 due to drinking too much water and flushing the salts/electrolyte out of his body. I was told if you put salt on your food and cannot taste it, you don't have enough salt in your body, and it's true.

The guy recovered by the way, but I wasn't too worried as he was RMP!!