Loveless bolts

[Zammo]

I recently bought what I thought would be loveless bolts but was sent these.

Which on the invoice I received with them are described as being 'brass handle bolts'. They were sold as being knife fittings.

What the hell are they and can they be used for knife pins?

 

[andyn]

they are loveless bolts

 

[Zammo]

I'm really confused now. When I see pictures of shing's (and other peoples) knives that are made with loveless bolts I can't see a whacking big screw head protuding from one side?!

 

[andyn]

once screwed on you need to cut the screw ends off and polish them down.


you can sort of see where the threaded inner screw goes into the bolt in this pic of my bison knife:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/93/235160650_2f61c02b9c.jpg

 

[hollowdweller]

So how exactly do you screw those down tight???

Do you glue the ferrules or whatever they are called into the handles beforehand and then torque the bolt down or what?

 

[Dave Budd]

roll one nut to the head of the bolt and then keep screwing til tight

I don't like them coz you get a gap where the thread comes through the nut

 

[Zammo]

once screwed on you need to cut the screw ends off and polish them down.


you can sort of see where the threaded inner screw goes into the bolt in this pic of my bison knife:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/93/235160650_2f61c02b9c.jpg

Do you cut the screw head off before or after you glue up the scales and knife?

 

[andyn]

to be honest mate, i'm not sure. Don't want to just look it up on google and give you a half arsed answer.

I don't use them personally just know what they are. I prefer mosaic pins tbh coz most the knives i make are for presents.

Might be worth having a look on British blades, im sure they will hve some kind of guide for using them.

 

[scanker]

I haven't used them either and I didn't really see how they did work until Dave Budd's post above. That makes sense. I guess you drill holes etc, glue the scales on, tighten up the bolts and leave the glue to dry. Once dry, grind/file off the screw head and "nut" that sticks out from one side and threaded bolt and "nut" that sticks out the other side so that they become flush with the scales. Does that make sense?

 

[Zammo]

I haven't used them either and I didn't really see how they did work until Dave Budd's post above. That makes sense. I guess you drill holes etc, glue the scales on, tighten up the bolts and leave the glue to dry. Once dry, grind/file off the screw head and "nut" that sticks out from one side and threaded bolt and "nut" that sticks out the other side so that they become flush with the scales. Does that make sense?

Yeah it does. I hope its as easy as it sounds!

The only reason I decided to use them is I messed up the scales on another knife and the only way to save them would be to use larger pins, which is why I went for these.

 

[Squidders]

These are indeed loveless bolts... you can also look up corby bolts for a similar thing but you don't see the screw thread.

http://www.heimerdingercutlery.com/catalog/category.cfm?Category=200

the link above has a few examples... no idea who they are but they have some pics that show a few types.

Cheers,

Joe

 

[leon-1]

Nice link Joe, I am making a knife with corby's at the moment, but unfortunately I have fitted and ground them already and am shaping the handle.

For a good fit with either Corby or Loveless bolts a step drill bit makes life a lot easier.

When grinding the bolts do remember that heat will effect the epoxy, so grind a little at a time or use files.

 

[Squidders]

I got bits before from:

http://www.weberknives.com/

top service and lots of nice bits and bobs... sorry if this link costs anyone lots of money

 

[Jedadiah]

Hey Zammo,

when i use loveless bolts i do all the usuall things when fitting scales, the only differences being these.

1. Before using the epoxy, i will dry fit everything together. Bearing in mind i have drilled holes for the loveless bolts with a step drill beforehand (more on that later)

2. when i have ensured that it all fit's and it is ready to go i make sure that the sleeves for the loveless bolts are lined up. Basically, if you screw the bolts into the sleeves which are held in the scales WITHOUT the tang between them, then when you introduce the tang, the scales and therefore the sleeves, are further apart and the female part of the thread (in the sleeves) may not line up with the start of the male thread and therefore , be a pain to screw in.

3. The sleeves should be an 'interference' fit (tight) in the scales. Some say they should be flush with the scales or just protruding, but i think the important part is on the inside of the scales. Don't drill too deep into the scales, leave a couple of mm of scale material before the fibre liners. Don't wory about anything sticking out of the outside of the scales, this can be cut or ground off later.

4. Glue the scales onto the tang (still with the loveless sleeves fitted). If you can, drop a spot of threadlock or thread glue into the sleeves, but only a bit. Don't worry if you have not got this, some of the epoxy you use for the scales will do, but again only a little. This serves to secure the male part (bolt) into the female part (sleeves). Make sure you fit the bolts at the same time as the scales as this will ensure they are lined up and the scales are straight, after all, you've already dry fitted it all before. Screw the bolts all the way into the sleeves so the screwhead is flush up against the relevant sleeve.

5. Allow the epoxy to go off as usual and when hardened, saw off the screwheads and shape the scales as normal. You can either sand, file, dremmel or grind whatever is protruding down flush with the scales, then as you shape the scales, they should wear as you shape.

Finally, on the subject of step drills, they can be a little expensive. If you are going to do this a lot, it may be worth buying one, just ensure it is the correct size. Where did you get yours from? If it was Mick Wardell, then they are probably 5/16", if it was English Rose, they are probably 6mm.

If you are unsure about this being the direction you want to go in and you have 5/16" bolts, i can lend you a step drill to try out, PM me your address and i'll chuck it your way, give it back to me at the Bushmoot or send it back when you've finished.

I hope this has been ok for you, i've tried to be as clear as possible, but if you have any questions, drop me a line, i'll try to help out.

 

[Zammo]

Thanks for the info Jedadiah. My bolts are 5/16". Why do I need a step drill, can't I just use a regular drill bit to make the hole?

 

[Shinken]

You can but you will need two drill bits. One 5/16 and one 5/32.

The 5/32 goes the whole way through the scales and the 5/16 not all the way

This is much harder than a step bit though. The smaller hole need to be exactly in the middle of the larger hole. You can do this by clamping the knife in place, drilling all the way through with the smaller bit. Leave it clamped but remove the drill bit and replace it with the bigger bit (this should insure that the smaller hole is in the middle of the larger one) and set the depth gauge on the drill press so that the bigger hole dosnt go all the way through to the tang but leaves a couple of mm.

You need an accurate drill press for this.

 

[Jedadiah]

Just as Shinken says mate, the step drill gives you a fully flat 'step' in the hole ensuring that there is no graduation between the two differing sizes. You get the correct 'bore' size for the bolts and a larger bore size for the sleeves and a flat surface for the sleeves to sit on.

If you PM me your address you can borrow mine and see what you think. If you like it and want use Loveless bolts more, then you can buy your own, i think Mick Wardell sells them for around £20. If you don't like it then you've saved some money!

My first time with loveless bolts, i practiced on scrap wood and it worked a treat. By the way. I use a hand drill, not a pedestal drill. I dont have access to one and my hand drill works fine. Just practice a little before you go to work on your scales.

The offers there mate, just pm me!

 

[Shinken]

Agreed mate, use the step drill. it will save you tears and the need for a drill press

 

[Marts]

Could you not just use a thicker guage of brass rod to pin them together?

 

[Dave Budd]

As I've only used these a couple of times, I've never bought a step drill. INstead I drill the first (and largest hole) with a wood bit, that gives a pin hole at the centre of a flat based hole then I use a second drill beit (eithr twist or wood bit) to go teh rest of the way.

Personally I prefer solid or mosaic pins. The only reason I would use loveless or corby bolts is if I didn't trust my adhesive to do the job that I pay £90 a pot for it to do!