Log burner log advice required...

[ged]

Individual sites might ban them, but wood burners in caravans are very definitely not illegal, any more than they are illegal in canal boats.

It is important to ensure you have sufficient ventilation - but the same applies in any circumstances where you have flame (whether it is a gas cooker, a solid fuel stove or paraffin lanterns).

It's not the having the burner in the carvan that's illegal - it's the DIY fitting.

 

[mrcharly]

It's not the having the burner in the carvan that's illegal - it's the DIY fitting.

That's not illegal either.
Just like it isn't illegal to fit your own to a canal boat.
Or in a house.

Or do your own gas work (for gas supplied via removable cylinder, not mains gas supply).
For canal boats you need a boat safety certificate, which entails paying a registered inspector. they aren't interested in who did the installation. That includes gas installations.

 

[dewi]

It's not the having the burner in the carvan that's illegal - it's the DIY fitting.

It isn't illegal Ged, it is just recommended that you get a HETAS fitter to install it and provide certification. In the case of a house, you'd probably also need to make sure you comply with building regs... that only matters when you come to sell and someone asks for proof that the install meets the regs.

Having the qualifications of a HETAS fitter is not mandatory... and unless there are site rules that prevent it, you can have pretty much anything you like fitted inside your caravan. If you do it incorrectly and die, you're to blame... if a HETAS fitter fits it and you die, the fitter is to blame.

 

[petrochemicals]

It isn't illegal Ged, it is just recommended that you get a HETAS fitter to install it and provide certification. In the case of a house, you'd probably also need to make sure you comply with building regs... that only matters when you come to sell and someone asks for proof that the install meets the regs.

Having the qualifications of a HETAS fitter is not mandatory... and unless there are site rules that prevent it, you can have pretty much anything you like fitted inside your caravan. If you do it incorrectly and die, you're to blame... if a HETAS fitter fits it and you die, the fitter is to blame.

I sure there a heating engineer on here somewhere, and any who who I was envisaging a mobile home caravan, not an eddis or streamline car towable, one where the wheels are only used for final positioning. Thoes things you can have greek pillars outside, so a fire doesnt seem all that austentatious!

 

[dewi]

I texted a mate of mine who is a heating engineer, asked the question... his response was 'lol' which tells me nothing. Either he's laughing because he thinks I'm daft, or he's laughing that I would even ask the question

Be interested to know if the position has changed on it, because as my wife pointed out when I mentioned it to her, it could be that the law is not clear... if its been changed, I'm in trouble.

 

[Chiseller]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[dewi]

Thats a tidy looking wood burner!

 

[British Red]

I texted a mate of mine who is a heating engineer, asked the question... his response was 'lol' which tells me nothing. Either he's laughing because he thinks I'm daft, or he's laughing that I would even ask the question

Be interested to know if the position has changed on it, because as my wife pointed out when I mentioned it to her, it could be that the law is not clear... if its been changed, I'm in trouble.

[h=1]Can I install the stove myself?[/h]
By law the installation of all multi fuel stoves and wood burners requires that you notify your local Building Control Officer so that they can inspect the installation and ensure that it complies with local Building Regulations (Click here for your local regulations). We believe that it can cost as much as £150 for the inspection visit, but this can vary depending on the local authority.

Hetas approved installers (our industry's version of Corgi, now Gas Safe) are the only other people who can certify that the installation complies with the regulations and issue the appropriate conformance certificate, which you may need if you sell your house or you have to make an insurance claim.

The actual installation itself is not rocket science and most practical DIYers can manage this without much difficulty (if you're okay with heights when it comes to dropping a liner down the chimney). However, in our opinion (and we say this purely with your safety in mind) it is always best to leave the installation of a stove or boiler stove to a professional installer who will have experience of fitting hundreds of stoves in virtually every type of situation. Hetas registered installers know the relevant building regulations and they know the right components to use – above all, they understand the danger a poorly installed stove can create for the end users.

If you do decide to install your own stove then please get to know the requirements of Document J before you start. There are three important elements:

1. 1 Ventilation. You must provide adequate air to feed the stove and to avoid the build up of toxic gases – any stove of 5kW and above must have a dedicated 'air brick' fitted in the room the stove is located in. Since October 2010 this now applies to all stoves, even if the output is less than 5kW, when they are installed in any dwelling built after 2008. The actual size of the air brick, for example for a 6kW stove, is relatively small and certainly much smaller than the air bricks most of us are used to.
2. Flues. You must ensure the safe passage of fumes and smoke from your flue or chimney and that they do not create problems for any windows on your own or neighbouring buildings etc.
3. Combustible materials. There are strict guidelines about the proximity of combustible materials such as wooden mantles, stud walling and the type of hearth you need etc. Document J also includes requirements on how your flue should pass through walls and ceilings etc, when you do not have a traditional chimney breast and are creating a 'new' flue or chimney system. Although Document J is a very detailed technical document, you'll be pleased to know that the section on solid fuel stoves is only a small part of it.

If you are not local to either of The Stove Yard showrooms in Cheshire or County Down, you can find a list of Hetas registered stove installers at www.hetas.co.uk.

To download Document J (England & Wales) click here. For Scotland, Isle Of Man, N. Ireland or the Republic of Ireland Building Regulations click here.

Source: http://www.thestoveyard.com/pwpcontrol.php?pwpID=7483

So, yes you can install your own stove but it needs to be inspected and signed off and comply with the rules in document J

 

[ged]

It isn't illegal Ged, it is just recommended that you get a HETAS fitter to install it and provide certification. In the case of a house, you'd probably also need to make sure you comply with building regs... that only matters when you come to sell and someone asks for proof that the install meets the regs.

Having the qualifications of a HETAS fitter is not mandatory... and unless there are site rules that prevent it, you can have pretty much anything you like fitted inside your caravan. If you do it incorrectly and die, you're to blame... if a HETAS fitter fits it and you die, the fitter is to blame.

Yes you can install these things yourself, but the finished installation has to meet the regulations.

The issue was with the half-assed DIY approach.

As Red says, if you do it yourself the installation needs to be signed off by the local inspector, and if it doesn't meet the regulations it's illegal and he won't sign it off.

You're very unlikely to get it signed off if you just 'flash it out the window' as was suggested in post 14.

 

[dewi]

Fair enough... the law is covering the installation of a fixed property, ie bricks and mortar... but where do they stand on mobile homes/caravans?

I fully agree with you Ged that half-assed DIY approaches are not going to be safe, and I missed the post on the 'flash it out the window' but to be fair, that is venting the fire rather than nothing at all. Venting it out of a window in a temporary structure... if you're living in it 365/24/7 then thats probably stupid... but overnight stop over? Genuinely asking btw... not being pedantic.

Be very interested in what the law has to say about mobile homes/caravans... but taken onboard about installing one in a house. Not overly chuffed at the £150 charge... it seems a little excessive, but if its the law, its the law. I don't agree with the excessive amounts people are charged in road tax for a diesel but its the law.

 

[dewi]

Had a thought... the local building control at the council should have the info on this... I'll give them a ring in the morning to double check. Still searching the web, but the stuff I'm finding is similar to what BR posted up.

 

[woodstock]

It's not the having the burner in the carvan that's illegal - it's the DIY fitting.

I had a gas bottle conversion in mine for last winter boy was I grateful, it is a DIY job, its my van and my responsibility im not having some suit tell me what I can and cannot do in my own van.

 

[British Red]

The £150 charge is just a guess. My buddy is a Hetas installer and wouldn't charge anything like that

 

[dewi]

I had a gas bottle conversion in mine for last winter boy was I grateful, it is a DIY job, its my van and my responsibility im not having some suit tell me what I can and cannot do in my own van.

But bear in mind, you can be told whether or not you smoke in your vehicle depending on your vehicle status. When my company owned my vehicle, I couldn't smoke in it... a simple transfer from company vehicle to private, I can smoke in it.

The government certainly can tell you what to do in your own vehicle, depending on what they decide is right to do.

 

[dewi]

The £150 charge is just a guess. My buddy is a Hetas installer and wouldn't charge anything like that

I should imagine its a lot like the gas safety cert... I know people who will cert it for £65, others £85... and probably some charge more. Up to the individual/company... but is it the HETAS who needs to sign it off or building control??

 

[johntarmac]

I lived for 30 years in a mobile home with a Parkray solid fuel fire quite happily as do hundreds/thousands of others although mains gas central heating is becoming more the norm nowadays.
Fire in a mobile home/caravan is certainly not something to be blase about though as they will burn to the ground in a matter of minutes.
While I was required to have a fire extinguisher and fire blanket I don't recall any regs to say how I installed my fire.

Taking the flue out of the roof or through the side is no different as long as the necessary precautions are taken.
While I don't recommend it and frankly wouldn't do it myself passing the flue out of a window, well away from anything flammable and high enough for the fumes not to come back in isn't any different or more dangerous.

Personally I felt safer with the fire than I am now with gas central heating and the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[woodstock]

But bear in mind, you can be told whether or not you smoke in your vehicle depending on your vehicle status. When my company owned my vehicle, I couldn't smoke in it... a simple transfer from company vehicle to private, I can smoke in it.

The government certainly can tell you what to do in your own vehicle, depending on what they decide is right to do.

Sorry I should have said its a caravan sitting in a field in the middle of nowhere, I may take advice but i will not be told what I can and cannot do as long as i am not doing anything unlawful not illegal but unlawful i do as i like, why should anyone be dictated to, more to the point why let them then complain its not fair, remember its just a ride enjoy it.

 

[British Red]

I should imagine its a lot like the gas safety cert... I know people who will cert it for £65, others £85... and probably some charge more. Up to the individual/company... but is it the HETAS who needs to sign it off or building control??

Notionally buildings inspectorate, but like Corgi if they check your work and complete the final connection, they can certify it I believe

In the UK The Stove Yard strongly recommend using a Hetas registered installer (www.hetas.co.uk) and in Ireland a registered installer from INFO - the Irish Nationwide Fireplace Organisation (www.fireplace.ie). In the UK installations of wood burning stoves and multi fuel stoves, even if only a simple stove replacement in an existing flue system, are subject to the requirements of local building regulations and by law are notifiable to your local authority Building Control department. Once the appropriate fee has been paid and the installation is inspected, the Building Control Officer will issue the appropriate compliance certificate. Hetas registered installers can self-certicate their work thus avoiding the need for costly and time-consuming building notice applications

 

[ged]

... Be very interested in what the law has to say about mobile homes/caravans... but taken onboard about installing one in a house.

It doesn't matter whethere it's a towable or not, the definition talks about whether it can be moved. but there's a big difference depending on usage - whether occasional (AFAICT that means less than 28 days per year, a bit like camping in the woods) or not occasional.

Here's a helpful precis of how the regs apply in the Forest of Dean:

http://www.fdean.gov.uk/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=6430

I don't suppose it's a lot different elsewhere in England, and possibly even Wales, but the rest of the, er, Union might well be very different.

Quite apart from safe installation there are also air quality issues which are very local. For example where I am in Derbyshire a wood burner has to be certified to meet exhaust cleanliness criteria.

Building Inspectors exercise quite a bit of judgement. Once when I got planning permission for a boat shelter the planning department insisted that I get building regs approval too. I thought they were nuts. I called the Building Inspector, who took one look at it, said "It's not a building." and left.

Not overly chuffed at the £150 charge... it seems a little excessive, but if its the law, its the law. I don't agree with the excessive amounts people are charged in road tax for a diesel but its the law.

I look at it like this: right now I don't have to tramp around foreign countries with a quarter of a million of my countrymen looking for someone to take me and my young family in after some maniac, where I used to live, and for no particular reason, has bombed me out of my home. Ask any of the Syrians you meet what they think of a small charge to pay for a guy to check that the equipment in your home is safe for you to use.

 

[mrcharly]

Fair enough... the law is covering the installation of a fixed property, ie bricks and mortar... but where do they stand on mobile homes/caravans?

They don't apply.

The gas-safe website is extremely misleading, it implies any gas installation comes under their remit. I had to look up the actual legislation to check. Gas-safe regs apply to installations on mains piped gas or stored gas where the storage container is refilled at the site of use. they don't apply to installations using removable cylinders.

That said, gas installations need doing very carefully with attention paid to the regs; they are sensible requirements (and the requirements for boats are much higher than in caravans or houses).

As for solid-fuel stoves; there are fewer considerations. Mostly you need to be very aware of the need for ventilation, radiant heat and the risk of ignition. It is very very important that there is an external source of fresh air. There have been increasing numbers of deaths on narrowboats where young people (didn't grow up with fires in their house) block off the ventilation grills in winter because of the draft - then die from CO/CO2 poisoning.