Light weight camping <5kg

[trekkingnut]

Been testing out how to get as light as possible but still being comfortable.

got down to this.

Vaude Taurus 1 tent (outer only) 1700gms
Thermarest pro lite 460gms
Softie Jungle 700gms
MSR quick system 1 360gms
MSR pocket rocket 87gms
MSR dromlite 130gms

Total: 3437gms (3.437kg)

Granted, that is not including, gas, water or food. I would just wear the same clothes the whole time and probably wear my goretex for most of it as well....

Does that actually mean that my base-weight is zub 5kg???? (including bag)???

I guess it could be less if i used a one man tent but thats not bad!!! its def a start!!! dont really want to use a bivi.... like my space...

what are other peoples absolute minimums that they are willing to take with them?

will post photos tomorrow of tent and gear inside... its looks weird because there is just nothing in it....

 

[johnboy]

Been testing out how to get as light as possible but still being comfortable.

got down to this.

Vaude Taurus 1 tent (outer only) 1700gms
Thermarest pro lite 460gms
Softie Jungle 700gms
MSR quick system 1 360gms
MSR pocket rocket 87gms
MSR dromlite 130gms

Total: 3437gms (3.437kg)

Granted, that is not including, gas, water or food. I would just wear the same clothes the whole time and probably wear my goretex for most of it as well....

Does that actually mean that my base-weight is zub 5kg???? (including bag)???

I guess it could be less if i used a one man tent but thats not bad!!! its def a start!!! dont really want to use a bivi.... like my space...

what are other peoples absolute minimums that they are willing to take with them?

will post photos tomorrow of tent and gear inside... its looks weird because there is just nothing in it....

All very interesting..

But what type of trip in what terrain and at what time of the year would you consider using this uber lightweight load??

For example if you were that way inclined in high summer at lower elevations you could kip under a hedge with no sleeping bag just your clothes a jacket and a wooly hat with a Tesco Bag for your other kit.. 'Base weight' possibly sub 2kg... You might be a bit uncomfortable but...

 

[redandshane]

You will need a rucksack ?something by golite
You will have to include water at least
You can do away with even more weight and eat only cold food and have hot meals in pubs cafes etc

Keeping weight down is important when on the move but its all about compromise I find
Things like torches, cameras,binoculars etc although perhaps not essential do enhance the experience
Interesting though

 

[Teepee]

I always try to set off with 10kg. Often itll be 12 kg, but with heavy stuff like fresh meat and alcohol that will be used first night.

The 5-6 kg point is easily doable for me, until I start putting in the phone, waterproofs, maps, compass, head torch, waterbladder, purifier,groundsheet,first aid kit,knife, spare socks, stakes,emergency blanket etc.

 

[Minotaur]

I always try to set off with 10kg. Often itll be 12 kg, but with heavy stuff like fresh meat and alcohol that will be used first night.

The 5-6 kg point is easily doable for me, until I start putting in the phone, waterproofs, maps, compass, head torch, waterbladder, purifier,groundsheet,first aid kit,knife, spare socks, stakes,emergency blanket etc.

Lol that my problem, nee a stop on the way at the ten mile or so mark. Do not need that, that heavy, what else can I dump to save weight?

 

[Paul_B]

Base weight and what makes it up has been debated on many outdoors forums especially the US BPL site. Base weight includes everything you carry but water and food. If you work on that I suspect that your figure will increase as you add your clothes that you will not doubt carry in your sack when walking. Afterall you will get cold when stopped so there must be some extra warmth layer to start with that needs to be factored in. Any first aid kit or other axtras essentials?

If you are truly serious then you have to ditch the MSR stuff except for the pocket rocket. The msr pots are heavy for what you truly need. I mean if you are cooking dehydrated food (assume you are if you're this bothered by weight) then you only need a pot/mug. I have two systems, AGG 3 cup pot and light plastic drinking mug and the Vargo TI-lite potmug. Both these systems come in at about the 130g mark at most. Anyone who uses a 360g MSR pot system when bothered by weight is not really trying

Try a CCF instead of the TAR. Outwell do one for a few quid that weighs 130g. Ditch the tent and use a tarp. Afterall you are effectively using the outer only as a tarp. If you learn how to pitch a tarp well it will perform as well as your outer only vaude. I use a cave type pitch with the opening being adjusted in height according to conditions. Lower in bad weather higher for more room in good. Perhaps even an A frame on good weather.

For those truly serious a cuben fibre tarp is the only way. Team IO do some good tarps out of carbon fibre. Plus some other lightweight stuff. UK based cottage industry too so support him if you can.

BTW you have missed your sack off which will probably be about 1kg if its a light one which means 4.4kg. Then you are probably into the little extras that are light but add up. Perhaps a 150g FAK, a 30g Spork, spare fleece which is say 300g, etc. You will find yourself where I am before long which is 6kg. I can't get lower than 6kg when all my base load is added. I do think a 8-9kg load with water and food is good. That is where I am. I know I could get lighter but I don't really care about spending the money to make the next stage weight reduction. I have the view that so far my weight saving purchases have bee £15/100g saved. Any future weight reductions that I can see will cost me sub £10/100g saved. Not really that botherd at the moment to spend that.

BTW you are already on a good weight (when you factor in the missing items) so just get out and enjoy. Afterall I bet you know people who carry a heavier day pack than that. I know I do.

 

[trekkingnut]

nice to hear everyones points, going to start off by saying, i did write that it was a compromise between weight and comfort! yes yes yes if id wanted to go uber ultra light i would have slept on some ferns in my hh thermals! but thats not the aim i was going for.

I have picked a tent over a tarp (got one... know how to set it up.... its 30d and extremely light weight for its size) because i wanted to, no other reason. i wanted to see how comfortable and wind proof it was and easy etc with just the outer and no second layer.

I totally disagree about the msr comment, i am an expedition manager and would take msr products over most things because of their weight, but again, its a compromise, actually the quick system one only weighs 290gms, msr website was wrong. however, thats for a 1.5litrs titanium pot and a thermally insulated mug.... so that means i have very quick boiling times, a size where i can cook for more than one and a mug that keeps my drink very hot while i faff around doing other things!!! If you were REALLY serious about being lightweight then you would use a penny stove at 5gms and a beer can with the lid cut off at about 7gms....but can we really be bothered to use that???? i have one upstairs that i made.... so i guess for adventure racing we could know an extra 400gms off but like i said comfort/weight compromise. O! and the pot has a built in strainer, and i do love to make noodles and then strain the soup into my mug to keep for a while! big softie at heart.

my msr dromlite is a 2ltr version and at 130gms... unbeatable. and the pocket rocket is also the lightest gas stove on the market.... again comfort/weight, because it can produce enormous ammounts of heat and boil a cup of tea in under a min no problem.

not going to keep banging home the VS point.... thermarst = comfortable yada yada yada.... i wouldnt purchase something so thin and light as a 130gm ccf pad anyway... they rip... someone lent me one about two weeks ago that they got from b and q.... it was destroyed after one night and went in the bin. before i went therma rest i would use a military grade ccf pad and they come in around the 400gm mark anyway... so why not just go for the extra 60gm and be more comfortable. I can use thermarests in the jungle because we are not allowed, they pop, its a pain in the **** etc..... ccf pads only.

didnt miss the sack off.... hence why i said <5kg (including sack....)got plenty to chose from, some light weight, some army issue and some rubbish ones. wouldnt want a fleece, was wearing a hh last night when i tried it and was fine....

i would try and avoid a pub if i were camping.... doesnt quite bring the same sense of satisfaction. having said that, was in edale with a group two weeks ago, old nags head, food averages about 10-12 quid +. they had something called a peak pasty, with all the trimmings for about <£5 (£4.??) and it was increidble!!! great birthday treat! yummy!

there are several types of camping that i do in the uk, this setup would be for a quick weekend or adventure race only. nothing extended. and only in summer because its a jungle sleeping bag!

if i had a car and was leading a group somewhere, obviously i would taken mountains of unnecessary stuff... my artic sleeping bag for example because its really squidgy and comfortable. more food, more clothing.... blah blah blah.

and finally if i was doing an extended uk trip without a car then i would pack differently as well.. everything would have to have at least two purposes or it couldnt come... but i would be taking much the same gear as this but obviously with a lot of the normal extras as well, clothing, food, water, torches, cameras, tent inner etc....

of course i can pack lighter.... and of course i can pack heavier! but in the words of ray mears, if you are roughing it you are doing it wrong!

o and as for cutlery, find a tree and make some chopsticks.... very easy and feels nice to make something on the go.

its early morning, this wasnt supposed to be a grrrrrr response but it does kinda seem that way reading over it again. no harm no foul. and i appreciate everyones comments, i hope my justification has cleared up my aims and provides a better picture!

 

[Shewie]

The first item on my list is my canoe which comes in at just under 26kg, then I fill it with canvas and leather packs which come in around 5kg each, empty

I can go light if I'm tramping on foot, not sure of the weight but I can manage a two nighter with hammock and tarp, cooking/brew gear, pad and doss bag, waterproofs and Bison shirt, map and compass, knife and saw all in a Sabre 30L. It's not really about the weight for most of my trips anymore but I still like to do the odd lightweight stealthy camps when I can.

 

[Paul_B]

I agree with the TAR but was just making a point. BTW the CCF pad I have from outwell has lasted a lot longer than my old karrimat costing and weighing a lot more. Funny how not all things cheap and light fail as quickly as you'd think they would. I only got it after reading it in a budget UL article in TGO. Kind of the only thing in his list that I would have considered buying.

Totally agree with the RM comment. I use a tarp whenever possible. At no point when using it have I considered myself roughing it. As I don't fit into the uber light tents (and can't waste money on them) I only have a single skintent. This is more grim than my tarp.

I like the MSR pocket rocket but I'm not the same sort of camper as you in terms of cooking and eating. We have our ways and mine is to get the food down then kip. I find insulated mugs keep the brew too hot for too long. I make my brew with the water left once I have poured it into the food pouch for re-hydrating in the mug/pot I boiled it in. I then proceed to sort my tent out and then drink and eat at my leisure. After that it is generally dark anyway so I turn in. As a result I find the MSR stuff overkill for my needs and wants. If it suits you that's great but I only put an idea forward that suits me.

Everyone's replies just go to show that there is more than one way to skin a cat. WE all have our methods to reduce pack weight. At the end of the day you have to be happy with your kit. I know of people who use meths can stoves, I can't get on with those despite perhaps being able to cut a few grams off my fuel requirement. I've tried andown everything from a heavy mini trangia down to a MBD brush type wick stove with remote fuel feed and a pepsi can stove. Yet to try a caldera cone / clone but may well yet. I have looked with interest at a 1litre can of lager (with free glass) without being interested in the contents (sign of an obsesive IMHO). I had in mind a stove / pot set-up but never formalised my plans. They have now sold out. Each to their own system. I do think you are along the right lines so if you're happy things are right. Who knows I might see you out on the trails and get the chance to debate face to face gear choices.

 

[Ray Britton]

Hi trekkingnut.

I had a quick look at your item list, and ignoring the fact it is not a full list (as you said), so is not the final weight, every bit of kit you do mention can easily be lighter or improved for the same weight.

Your list was:

Vaude Taurus 1 tent (outer only) 1700gms

That is far too heavy to be serious! A whole tiger paw can be that light, and for that you will have the inner and outer. Staying with cheap tents, the gelert solo can come down to 1.2kg for the whole thing with a bit of peg swapping etc.
Thermarest pro lite 460gms

A more comfortable mat (9it is much thicker) would be something like a pacific outdoor equipment 'ether lite' at just under 400 grammes

Softie Jungle 700gms

Thats a good weight bag, but there are warmer bags (if of course you need that lol) for a similar weight

MSR quick system 1 360gms

Just too heavy. MSR are very good, but then so is Tibetan or snow peak stuff. I would not dream of carrying something that heavy. On my last trip, the 2 litre pot c/w lid, remote cannister stove (nowhere near my lightest stove), full 250 gas cart, washup gear/scrubber, lighter and wind shield only came to 800 grammes (this would be approx 400 grammes if I was solo)

MSR pocket rocket 87gms

A very good stove, but not good for larger pots. There are now wide head cannister stoves under 50 grammes now, and still cheaper than a pocket rocket.

MSR dromlite 130gms

Again, not the lightest on the market. A good brand, but no better than Platy etc

Yourr original total: 3437gms. This can easily become: 2050 (approx) if the gear on your list was swapped for lighter but equal quality items.

My minimum carry weight (not base weight) is 7kg, but that includes everything for say two and a half days, including rucksack, gas, food, water, spare clothing/waterproofs, recharging gear/torch, washing gear and luxuries etc.

The taurus tent you mention is a very good tent, but if you chose to buy something like a tiger paw, you would have had at least £150 extra to spend making your other gear lighter. IMHO the taurus without its inner is near useless as it will not keep out very heavy rain, and has condensation issues, not to mention loses a lot of its warmth.

Just my two penneth. As you say, you already have good quality gear, its just not very light weight on the whole

 

[trekkingnut]

considering this isnt even close to my full kit list for expeditions. im happy with what i have as my lightweight and dont want to swop anything out.

 

[Ray Britton]

Hi trekkingnut
Is that a pic of your expedition kit, or is that your lightweight stuff?
I'm just curious, as you mentioned the word 'expedition' Where do you do your expeditions? I ask this out of curiosity, as I rarely meet anyone who does proper expeditions these days, with most just being happy with four or five day backpacking trips.

johnboy. For some reason i have only just noticed your post! Many folks would travel with much lighter kit than trekkingnuts, and are happy to use it well up into the higher altitudes. I myself use this lighter kit quite often in the Brecons in the normal winds there and easily down to minus ten. Not all lightweight gear is inferior...its just lighter lol

The uber light travellers would also not dream of using all the storage bags and stuff sacs trekkingnut has, as these will add another kilo to your pack weight.

 

[wentworth]

Here's my list with weights. This includes everything I take, excluding food and water. You'll notice I've included things not often seen on ultralight lists: car key, license, map, mapcase etc. All things that are necessary to either get to the start of a walk or do the walk. Their absence makes me question a lot of ultralight lists...

Pack: 1135g
Mat: 88g
Tarp: 409g
Raincoat: 262g
Knife: 132g
Platypusx2:50g
FAK+emergency gear: 373g
Drybag+quilts: 890g
Warbonnet Hammock: 910g
Socks: 70
Beanie: 37
Thermal Top: 267g
Longjohns: 154g
Jacket: 388g
Windshirt: 109g
Billy: 122g
Firelighting gear: 115g
Spork:10g
GPS: 148g
Compass: 31g
Torch: 76g
Key+ID:10g
Mapcase+map: 134g
Toiletpaper+ sanitizer:20g

Total:5940g

I've been using this gear for a few years now and it has taken me down to -3C in comfort. If I can't hammock for any reason, I still have a torso sized mat to go to ground. I could go a lot lighter if I ditched a lot of the clothes, but the only benefit to that would be in reducing my safety margin... Hope this helps.

 

[johnboy]

johnboy. For some reason i have only just noticed your post! Many folks would travel with much lighter kit than trekkingnuts, and are happy to use it well up into the higher altitudes. I myself use this lighter kit quite often in the Brecons in the normal winds there and easily down to minus ten. Not all lightweight gear is inferior...its just lighter lol

Hi Ray Britton,

It's ok I've only just noticed your answer..

I don't seem to remember saying that lightweight kit was inferior??
If I inferred it it was not my intention.

I think the OP was ok but clearly you're not going to be using a 700g 'jungle' bag at 2500m in the Alps in January. Or at least I wouldn't.

Often with posts on kit on BCUK or wherever there is a focus to say I've got a load of XX KG is that lightweight??..

It may well be if the trip is a couple of days in Summer in the UK at lower elevations..

But what if the trip is 10 days solo in Spring in the SI of NZ for example.

I think folk need to give the context of the type of trip they envisage using the kit in...

Cheers

John

 

[johnboy]

.

Do I see a pair of trip flare pickets??? Behind the yellow rope??

 

[Aussiepom]

Hi Wentworth,

slightly off topic, (OK, very off topic), but I notice that you pack a hammock. How do you find hammocking in Australia. I've been using a hammock for around 5 yrs now, and I've more or less ignored the advice of not pitching camp under trees. But the more I read, learn and experience, I'm starting to question the wisdom of hammocking around eucalypts, given the tendency they have of shedding branches. The problem I find is that on many occasions the only trees around are eucalypts and to avoid them you would have to go to ground.

 

[wentworth]

Hi Aussiepom,
I started with a Hennessy about 7 yrs ago, now use a warbonnet and a homemade one with a peapod.
I've only ever had trouble finding suitable trees once, along a creek in a gorge.

I never camp under big trees, as you stated, eucalypts are prone to dropping branches at any time. I just walk until I find a nice open area with small (3 to 4m high) trees, even if it means camping on a slope.

 

[Aussiepom]

As you say, finding trees isn't usually a problem, it's just that it often seems that the only suitable trees around happen to be eucalypts. I'll guess I'll just have to make a judgement call as to whether the tree would be big enough to do me serious harm if it shed a branch.

 

[Ray Britton]

Hi johnboy.
Just noticed your reply......As I have come come on to the site hahahahahaha

No, I didn't think you were inferring anything, I was just making a point that not all ultra lightweight gear is inferior.
I come to this site with an ex military (read heavy gear) and an ultra lightweight (read, ultra light weight lol) background (as well as an ex bushcraft/survival instructor, so I had to use lots of useless, heavy, but 'bush craft branded' gear to keep the students happy), so the term uber light is completely out of context to me, for the kind of ordinary weight gear being described in the post mentioned. But, having talked more with the poster, I realise that the gear in question was expedition weight gear, and not intended to be be ultra light. That was purely a label applied later.