Leuku or Hatchet?

[Robson Valley]

Yeah, if none of them show up, it's back to weiners & beans. I've had cougar at a game dinner, was better than I imagined.
Black bear tastes kind of porky, not tops on my menu. Suppose Grizz would be similar. Wolf is too doggy.
Wolverine is a Mustelid, if my memory serves. Boil for 6 hrs, throw away and eat the pot.

Used to be a Grizz sow, with cubs every year, that hung out in a couple of pastures east of the village.
Could see her from the highway. Next to the fence,you would judge her to be Volkwagen-size.
Locally, I've only ever seen one other grizz that was bigger, a boar. He sat down in the road.
Hoh-Lee Toot! was he big.

 

[Wayland]

The Same people of old did not have axes. They had access to iron in the form of barrel hoops they fashioned into knives, the largest being what you guys call the Finnish name of Leuku. Could not afford axes.
I got this info from the Horse's mouth.

That makes a great deal of sense, and from that early necessity comes a tradition that is different to most other cultures in the Boreal Forest where an axe is preferred. Interesting...

I wonder what would have happened if traders had gone into Sápmi with hundreds of trade axes like they did in North America and Canada.

 

[dave89]

I would approach this by asking myself the question "what do i need to do"

i.e
Do i need to build shelter? no i have a tent
Do i need to cut dead wood? no it usually comes in branch form which i could break against a tree
Will i need pot hanger? Yes ill need a knife to notch that.

etc..etc....

 

[SGL70]

The Same people of old did not have axes. They had access to iron in the form of barrel hoops they fashioned into knives, the largest being what you guys call the Finnish name of Leuku. Could not afford axes.
I got this info from the Horse's mouth.

Sure about that? Given the terrain they passed through (of which the Boreal North is a part) in combination with their tasks (herding reindeer and going about their daily chores), I'd say that a Leuku is more suitable/versatile...cost might have been one factor, off course, but I am guessing that is a bit too simplified. But I could be wrong, off course. It has happened....once

Greger

 

[Muskett]

As below. Many modern trekkers take a burner and have little need for a fire even.

The iron trade took off pretty quickly as there was a ready supply of ore in Europe. Didn't take long for everywhere to have a local blacksmith to knock out anything needed. Iron and steel remained expensive but as weapons and agricultural tools a real necessity that ensured the population growth that has never looked back.
Recycling iron and steel has being going on for a while now. The Kukri from leaf springs and railway tracks. (The latter so bad that railway companies were subsidising the locals to stop them steeling).
Saws are more difficult to make as they require higher quality steel, greater skill, and more difficult to maintain. Not a problem now, but they used to be. Axes were far easier to cast and much more tolerant to manufacturing issues. The finest armour of old, that costs a fortune, is the equivalent to some basic industrial steel now. Certainly axes have some real advantages over a saw, but for recreation "holiday" use the saw is safer and efficient.

Anyhow migration generally took oxen carts, mule trains or slave porterage. Roman roads were a Roman thing. Europeans in North America was by ship, canoe, or mule; with some local input. Whatever tool advantage was available was used to best effect, and still is. Forestry is done with large plant equipment to the point most materials are relatively inexpensive, well never been cheaper. Labour remains the highest cost, and reflects the living standards of that particular country.

Big fascinating subject. I like central heating and running drink safe water. Anything beyond backward looking is for he fun of it.

For personal everyday tasks then many farmers take a personal knife, but they also have the full tool box back at home.

 

[Janne]

Sure about that? Given the terrain they passed through (of which the Boreal North is a part) in combination with their tasks (herding reindeer and going about their daily chores), I'd say that a Leuku is more suitable/versatile...cost might have been one factor, off course, but I am guessing that is a bit too simplified. But I could be wrong, off course. It has happened....once

Greger

That info was given to me by Dr Wallquist and also by a couple of Same guys I knew.
The Same were too poor to be able to buy much. They took the iron bands from barrels and used as they were free. Dr Wallquist also told me it happened the Same stole nails from the railroad, to get iron for larger objects.

They had silver they got from coins assembled over centuries (and from Nasa Silvergruva).

When I bought my first real ( not made for sale to tourists) Same knife through a Same he told me it was from a barrel hoop. Quite soft metal, but easy to sharpen.
A real old same knife has a small blade for this reason, as a larger blade would bend.
I believe that Silvermuseet in Arjeplog has a nice collection of same knives, (but maybe not on display).

Trading was not easy for the Lapps. They did not have much the Swedes wanted. A good income opportunity opened up when the Swedes built the Inlandsbanan, they supplied the meat ( reindeer and Moose) and it happened that the women made a bit of cash selling their bodies to the workers ( rallare)
Dr Wallquist told me that Syphilis and Gonorrhea was quite common amongst the Lapps because of this.
Of course you will not read this everywhere, too politically loaded.

I am VERY fortunate I met and befriended Dr Wallquist before he passed away. He was the patron of my old regiment, K4 in Arvidsjaur, and I was the only officer interested in the ways and culture of the Sames, so we talked a lot.
The memory of him talking in a base camp on Nasa fjallet, , drinking beer, will never leave me.

For you non Swedes, Dr Einar Wallquist was a district doctor in the inland of the arctic Sweden, he travelled over a huge area and treated the people there, Swedish pioneers and the Same alike. The payment he preferred for his services was the nice things, like jewellery, clothers and so on the Same had. Sweden in those days (1920 to 40's) tried to destroy the Same culture and make them into modern Swedes.
He was accused of stealing expensive silver for his services, people did not understand that he wanted to preserve their culture from destruction.

Another source of income for the Same was to sell their Silver jewellery for cash. It got then melted down. Lost.
The Silver museum in Arjeplog is a must for you guys to visit if you are going to that area, to see some real Bushcraft!

Yes, the Same men tried to have two knives, a larger one ( leuku in Finnish) and a smaller one, if they could afford it.

 

[SoldierPalmer]

That info was given to me by Dr Wallquist and also by a couple of Same guys I knew.
The Same were too poor to be able to buy much. They took the iron bands from barrels and used as they were free. Dr Wallquist also told me it happened the Same stole nails from the railroad, to get iron for larger objects.

They had silver they got from coins assembled over centuries (and from Nasa Silvergruva).

When I bought my first real ( not made for sale to tourists) Same knife through a Same he told me it was from a barrel hoop. Quite soft metal, but easy to sharpen.
A real old same knife has a small blade for this reason, as a larger blade would bend.
I believe that Silvermuseet in Arjeplog has a nice collection of same knives, (but maybe not on display).

Trading was not easy for the Lapps. They did not have much the Swedes wanted. A good income opportunity opened up when the Swedes built the Inlandsbanan, they supplied the meat ( reindeer and Moose) and it happened that the women made a bit of cash selling their bodies to the workers ( rallare)
Dr Wallquist told me that Syphilis and Gonorrhea was quite common amongst the Lapps because of this.
Of course you will not read this everywhere, too politically loaded.

I am VERY fortunate I met and befriended Dr Wallquist before he passed away. He was the patron of my old regiment, K4 in Arvidsjaur, and I was the only officer interested in the ways and culture of the Sames, so we talked a lot.
The memory of him talking in a base camp on Nasa fjallet, , drinking beer, will never leave me.

For you non Swedes, Dr Einar Wallquist was a district doctor in the inland of the arctic Sweden, he travelled over a huge area and treated the people there, Swedish pioneers and the Same alike. The payment he preferred for his services was the nice things, like jewellery, clothers and so on the Same had. Sweden in those days (1920 to 40's) tried to destroy the Same culture and make them into modern Swedes.
He was accused of stealing expensive silver for his services, people did not understand that he wanted to preserve their culture from destruction.

Another source of income for the Same was to sell their Silver jewellery for cash. It got then melted down. Lost.
The Silver museum in Arjeplog is a must for you guys to visit if you are going to that area, to see some real Bushcraft!

Yes, the Same men tried to have two knives, a larger one ( leuku in Finnish) and a smaller one, if they could afford it.

Do you have any images of these original shaped lapplander knives?

 

[Martti]

The Same people of old did not have axes. They had access to iron in the form of barrel hoops they fashioned into knives, the largest being what you guys call the Finnish name of Leuku. Could not afford axes.

That info was given to me by Dr Wallquist and also by a couple of Same guys I knew.
The Same were too poor to be able to buy much. They took the iron bands from barrels and used as they were free. Dr Wallquist also told me it happened the Same stole nails from the railroad, to get iron for larger objects.

There are plenty of contemporary sources confirming that Saami have used axes for ages. It is common fallacy that Saami were poor, but in fact they had enough money to buy metres of fabric to cover their goahti / lávvu at least since the 1500s. They also had plenty of ironware.

 

[Janne]

Maybe the Same were richer in that part of the Russian Empire than in Sweden?( Not sure why they should be, as you treated them just as badly, if not worse as we did?)
I go with what I was told by the venerable doctor, and by some Same I knew.
Sorry, no pictures. I do not even own that knife anymore. Lost in one of my moves I have done since that time ( late 1970's) I think. But it was a quite simple knife, wooden and horn handle, hide scabbard with the lower part of horn. Unpolished blade that rusted as soon as you looked on it.

 

[SGL70]

Thanks, Janne. Interesting reading that.

My mother hails from Arjeplog and as a kid I did meet with Dr Wallquist. Mom got some paintings of his, which I am always try to spirit away

 

[Muskett]

Nothing changes, farmers always grumble and plead poverty.

Different times, different standards of living, different in so many ways.

 

[Janne]

Thanks, Janne. Interesting reading that.

My mother hails from Arjeplog and as a kid I did meet with Dr Wallquist. Mom got some paintings of his, which I am always try to spirit away

He was a very interesting man, lots of stories that would have been loved on this forum. He was our regiment Patron, but he also tought us a bit emergency medicine plus survival "his way" which was different from our normal teachers.
My dad used to have the same work in Smaland in the 70's, (distrikts lakare) But in those days there was no payment required... But we lived off the eggs, chicken, deer and moose meat he used to get from grateful patients.
During hunting season, we usually had a couple of deer hanging in the cellar!

 

[Janne]

Nothing changes, farmers always grumble and plead poverty.

Different times, different standards of living, different in so many ways.

If you refer to the Same, they are not farmers. They are Reindeer owners. Never complained, not as I ever heard.
The only complains I heard was about the stupid people in Parliament (in Stockholm) that did not understand what they had to do to live up there, like hunt "off season".
Things have changed to the better is my understanding.
The Same culture is a fantastic one.

 

[santaman2000]

If you refer to the Same, they are not farmers. They are Reindeer owners....

Bit of a fine line I suppose. Crop farmers or livestock farmers are both still farmers (ranchers/shepherds?) Though the nomadic lifestyle does seem to tend otherwise.

 

[Muskett]

Janne, it was a joke.
Animal husbandry of a nomadic method.
I think what they have a noble way of life and should be encouraged if not outrightly protected. Its very hard to sustain these old ways of living when the modern world offers such opulent alternatives. so many traditional methods have been lost already. Part of the modern Bushcraft ethos is to try to save some of the skills before they are gone forever. Takes enthusiasts as most of the old ways are straight forward hard work. Thing is the real skill takes experience and dedication of the kind few can afford to give the necessary time to aquire.
Same goes for many old farming practices which struggle to compete. No easy answer here.

Anyone watch the Whaling programs? A rich history that industrialisation was its downfall. Not sure if the industry stopped soon enough for some of the species; recovery is desperately slow for some, others are doing reasonably well. Long way to go though.

 

[Martti]

If you refer to the Same, they are not farmers. They are Reindeer owners.

That's a sweeping statement. Many of the Saami people were never reindeer herders, but fishermen, hunters or even farmers with sheep and cows.

 

[Janne]

That's a sweeping statement. Many of the Saami people were never reindeer herders, but fishermen, hunters or even farmers with sheep and cows.

Yes, There was a branch of Same that were fishermen, the Sea Sami as opposed to the Mountain Sami. Norwegian and Russian coast ( Norwegian Sea and Barents Sea) but I understand they disappeared basically as an entity in the 1800'. The Norwegians pushed them out very efficiently from the very profitable fishing, and I suspect the Russian government encouraged their own fishermen to do the same.

Of course most Same fished the lakes all across that region.

I am not aware that there were any Same in Sweden that were stationary and had an agricultural business.
Many Same also worked with lumber.

 

[z_bumbi]

I wonder what would have happened if traders had gone into Sápmi with hundreds of trade axes like they did in North America and Canada.

Northen part of Scandinavia isn´t isolated from the rest of Scandinavia like the way Canada is isolated from the Europé so there where both traders who sold axes and local (if local means someone one can travel to in one week) blacksmiths that could make axes. A lot of Samis also had axes but it if it was carried depended on the terrain, if not carried it could be pack away without the shaft or even stored in a cache at the location for the wintercamp. At a stationary wintercamp an ax is pretty good for gathering firewood and if traveling in winter with sub -30 degress without any kind of shelter an ax is an lifesaver.
Picking the right tool for the terrain, time of year and with a weight consideration isn´t something new and Samis had to be good at it as they didn´t had any other options.

 

[Tor helge]

If one read Yngve Ryds book "Eld". Some of the samis interviewed carried a small Axe, not a leuuku.

The sea sami hasn`t dissapeared, nor are they pushed out.
They`re still here Fishing, as Norwegians also has done for thousands of years.
Many of the samis here are farmers/fishermens and have been for a thousand years (or more).

The notion that samis are reindeer herders only is wrong.
Today about 10 percent of the samis are engaged in reindeer herding.