Legal advice needed please

[Robbi]

need some advice please guys.

i took my Grand Vitara into a Suzuki main dealer because the engine management ligh was staying on and sometimes it went into get me home mode, it also has a pretty bad oil leak from the back of the engine. ( i should add that the problem and symptoms were described in great detail to the service manager when i dropped the car off )

Garage advised after "extensive" testing that the fuel pump was the cause of the problem and needed changing, i autherised this work on their say so and a new pump was fitted.

The service manager has just phoned me to say that after a test run, the engine management light has come back on again and he now thinks it's the ECU or throttle possition sensor.

He also says they could not find an oil leak, although the back of the engine is covered in oil and i have a big stain on the drive !!

He is charging me over £800 for works done even though the fault (s) have not been cured !

Do i have a legal right to pay by credit card, then cancell the payment as the works as advised by the dealer has not cured the problems and I'm basically left with a car with the same problems but £800 lighter !!

any legal advice welcome chaps.

yours in desperation

Robbi

 

[Shewie]

Surely they're obliged to remove the new fuel pump and refit your old one, then continue to remedy the fault?

I've not had a personal car for 12 years mate so I've lost touch on how these things work now

 

[Dogoak]

I think it would be best to check out the Goods and Services act 1982

 

[udamiano]

Hi Robbi,

I personally think that you would be best served asking this question on a legal website, while the folks on here have lots of knowledge, I think that any advice you receive would be more based on an opinion rather than sound legal advice, and certainly would not stand up in any litigation process. Try contacting your credit card company first and see what their opinion is. but to be honest mate I wouldn't be taking any advice unless from a real legal bod. thats my opinion anyway

 

[Robbi]

sound advice indeed mate, i was rather hoping on the offchance that someone may have had experience of a similar situation and could advice on what they did.

 

[udamiano]

Hi Robbi,

each case would be dealt with individually anyway. have you tried contacting the 'Office of fair trading' they are the government department regulating trade practices, similarly trading standards in your local council, both would be able to give you impartial and more importantly free advice on your rights under law

 

[Kepis]

i had a similar thing with Vauxhall, my engine light kept coming on and engine would go all lumpy and it felt like i was driving through treacle, the more i accelerated the more laboured the engine was, but pull over and turn the car off and restart it the fault went away, although the light kept stayed on, i took it to my mechanic who advised me to go to a main dealer and ask to have a diaognostic set done on the car.

Long story short, there was a fault and quite a major one with the fuel system that was also subject to a Vauxhall safety recall, i asked why i had not been contacted to bring the car in, as i had bought the car from them and until times became hard, always had it (foolishly i admit) serviced by them as well, they couldnt answer me, so anyway they did the work and assured me the fault had been cured and off i went - err no it hadnt! , next trip out, exactly the same thing happened, so i went back and got landed with a bill for £500.00+ for a new fuel pump, so i argued the toss about how they told me it had been recitified and it hadnt, how they didnt recall the car for a safty recall for which they had no excuse as they had recalled the motor shortly after i bought it for a small less important recall, in the end though i had to pay up as they had my car, so i payed for it on a credit card and then got the credit card company involved, it rattled on for months, in the end i lost though, as in the small print for the safety recall was a little paragraph that stated 'excluding fuel pump' oh yes, they also put a nice big dent in the nearside door for good measure, which they did pay to have sorted after i went absolutely ballistic at them.

Best bet is as advised above, go and see a Solicitor or the CAB and get some proper legal advice.

 

[Realbark]

Helpful link

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/wirral/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV0046-1011.txt

 

[vizsla]

just what you dont want at christmas, im no legal wiz but unless things have changed as long as you havnt sighned anything you can pay what you think the service thats been provided is worth wether its a car problem or your not happy with a £30 steak them if they think there not getting a fair deal they have the right to go through small claims. like i say confirm this info cus im not sure
cheers ash

 

[ph5172]

We had similar with our Audi.
i was out of the country and in a call home the Mrs mentioned the car felt like the breaks were 'pulsing'. A friend tried to recreate the fault but couldn't, after some digging on the internet it was a common fault with the ABS sensors (due to having a short fire steering column), a lot of turns naturally become full lock and cause stress on the sensor wires, anyhow she took it to a garage who....
Changed the disks!!! as they were warped?
Changed the pads
Changed the fluid
anyhow on the way home, the breaks locked on, then released shooting the car into the middle of an A road.

The garage didn't admit fault but offered to replace the disks at 1/2 price as they were warped again (after 3 miles)

A call to a local specialist and £50 all in including labor with a new sensor and the car was good as new.

the total cost of the 'garage' (don't ask why she took it to Citroen!!) was £600 of which we had an apology and the mechanics had been 're-trained' and put on branch disciplinary action

My advise would be to call the CAB, but bank on loosing the money, anything else will be a bonus and find a local independent specialist

 

[Sherwood]

Dont know about the legalities....but speaking from a mechanics point of view, if it has an ECU, its just a case of plugging it in to a diagnostic computer and reading off fault codes and taking it from there....."extensive testing" sounds like they havent got a clue how to read the fault codes.... perhaps try joining this forum and ask advice there good luck getting it sorted

 

[ged]

This is not legal advice, as I am not qualified to give it, but I have a lot of experience in using the Courts in the UK to deal with what are known as "Small Claims".

There's quite a bit of good advice here already, but as it doesn't seem to have been explicitly covered I wouldn't recommend paying by credit card knowing that you intend later to rescind the payment. That probably wouldn't go down well with the credit card company, nor probably would it go down well in a court of law.

My approach at this stage would be to write the garage a seven day letter. It's cheaper than going to a solicitor in the first instance and it might even work.

Put in the letter a full history of exactly what's happened, exactly who did and/or said exactly what and exactly when. Say why it is you think what is wrong is wrong. Never mind that they know all that, you're not really writing it for their benefit but for the benefit (if it gets that far) of a judge in a court. Also tell them exactly what it is you want them to do. Tell them they have seven days from the date of receipt of the letter to do it, failing which you will contact your solicitor. I usually put at the bottom something like "If it is necessary for me to contact my solicitor this will of course add substantially to the costs."

Most of the time when a party (especially a garage) thinks they can get away with it they will have a go, and most of the time when they see that the punter means business they fold very quickly.

By all means post a draft of your letter here if you feel you'd like someone to look it over.

 

[Robbi]

many thanks Ged, i'm thinking through my options at the moment.

 

[Robbi]

Update.

Having now spoken with the credit card company legal bods they have advised that i put the payment into dispute. What this means is that the payment to the garage will go through as normal but the CC company send me out a form to complete giving all details, copy invoice etc and they will then decide if i have a case to claim the payment back. If they find that i do have a case, they will refund my payment and then take steps to recover the outstanding debt from the garage.

no idea how long this will drag on for but it may be useful to others to know the sequence of events.

 

[rancid badger]

Regardless of anything the CC company are saying, you should contact CAB asap, I'd also suggest both emailing and writing a fully detailed letter to the "person in charge" of Suzuki UK or whatever they call themselves.

Keep it as calm and straight to the point as possible; stick to the facts.

Don't waste any more time with the local dealer, try to go straight to the top and you'll find that the local dealer will probably start bending in various directions to be of "assistance".

Here's a start for you Robbi: ( in particular; the "FAQ's" , {customer services} at the bottom right of the home page box)
http://www.suzuki4.co.uk/

good luck,

 

[Robbi]

many thanks RB, really useful info there, i'll compose an email in the morning.

 

[Elines]

i think Consumers Association (Which?) provide a legal advice service that you can join at short notice.

Do you already have legal cover as part of a contents/buildings insurance policy?

Failing these then, as I think has been suggested, free options include trading standards and Citizens advive

 

[Robbi]

i have legal cover on the cars insurance, i wonder if i could use that ?

 

[Kepis]

i have legal cover on the cars insurance, i wonder if i could use that ?

Has to be worth a phone call to find out

 

[PeterW]

Robbi

Call you credit card company and say you want to file a Section 75 Complaint. It's not a disputed transaction which is how they are trying to treat it ....

Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act states the credit card company is jointly liable for ANY transaction between £100 and £30,000 regardless of the amount actually paid on the card.

The card company then have to refund you, and take it up on your behalf, it's not negotiable and they can't get out of it ! If they play dumb ask to speak to a supervisor !

You asked the garage to fix a specific fault, and they have failed to do so. They are therefore under contract to replace your old fuel pump and to only charge a reasonable amount to do so - max would be 2 hours labour. If they have disposed of the 'faulty' pump then technically it's theft and it's into a criminal case, not a civil one but lets not go there yet ....

If anyone has any work done that you pay for at a garage and it's not warranty work, they should hand over any part removed to you as they are your property ! That way, if things go wrong you can have the parts checked and confirmed independently.

Any problems PM me - I've worked for 2 of the UKs largest credit card companies.....

Cheers

Pete