Learning to sharpen my Mora free hand is not working out!

[Ramapo]

I recently received a Skookum Bush Tool (beautiful knife) and, after realizing the money I'd just spent for a hand made knife, it occurred to me that I'd better learn to sharpen a knife properly.

So, I bought three 6" DMT whetstones (corse, fine, and extra fine), read up on sharpening techniques, and then I got out my Mora and commenced sharpening.

The thing is, I think my blade is now duller than when I started!

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, bu this is not working out. I'm using the standard sort of technique demonstrated by Ray Mears with his Japanese water stones on youtube. I've tried the magic marker on the bevel and I'm wearing it down uniformly, so I think I'm holding the blade a consistent angle.

What might I be doing wrong? How much downward pressure should I be applying? Are my DMT stones adequate shapening tools?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Dave

 

[spamel]

It would seem you are removing metal, but the important part on sharpening is consistency of the angle you hold the knife at. Unless you use a gadget, you have to learn that. To help you, hold the blade with a finger edge under the spine of the knife as you push away. This will get you holding the blade almost exactly at the same angle each time. When i started out, I used to use this method and it really helped me. I hold the knife in my right hand and use my index finger along the spine to set the angle when pushing away. On pulling towards me to sharpen the other side, I use my thumb.

You've done the right thing by learning on a cheapo knife. Even if you ruin the Mora, who cares? A Skookum would be an expensive way to learn!

 

[AntoninoRusso123]

Not to sure where you are going wrong, But I recently purchased a Dartmoor from this website and It came with a dull blade. four hours later, it had a razor's edge. I used a simple £2 gritstone from Thorseby Market, course on one side fine on the other, All I did was to follow the bevel on the blade and work carefully untill the blade had the desired edge (this was done with the course side) I then polished the edge with the fine side of the stone untill all the rough edge was removed. Now my wilki has an edge that will cope with most taskes, from shaving fire sticks to chopping wood.

 

[Tye Possum]

I've actually been having the same problems. In case you didn't know, mora knives have a secondary micro bevel (at least mine did) so if you're laying the knife down with the large flat bevel on the stone, you won't even be touching the cutting edge. You have to raise the spine up a little to get the very edge on the stone but you can't feel that bevel so it's kind of a guessing game if you're doing it right and that's what I've been having trouble with.

Since you have DMT bench stones then it might be a good idea to get one of these. I've just become aware of them myself and they seem pretty handy but if the skookum doesn't have a micro bevel then it might be a waste. (though not an expensive one)

Funny thing is, I also bought a nice more expensive knife and then figured I should learn to sharpen it so bought a mora as well for the same reason as you lol.

 

[weaver]

Dave,

Get a 10x magnifier loupe or a low power microscope and take a good look at the edge of your knife. You will see what you are doing and with a tiny bit of thought you will know how to fix it.

The DMT plates you have are the best sharpeners on the market. But, you may need a little more practical practice in order to use them effectively.


When you say the knife is duller than when you started, can you be more specific? Have you rounded the edge? Does it have a wire edge that just needs to be worked off with a finer grit? Have you pressed too hard and rolled the edge? What stage are you in the process? Just used the coarse stone? Or worked it through all three?

 

[robin wood]

This thread http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29512&highlight=mora+sharp shows close ups of a new Mora edge with the microbevel if you don't already know about it I wrote it because if you follow Rays instructions for a woodlore on a mora it can cause problems.

The DMT stones are good but coarse. I would call the coarse fine and extra fine, file coarse and medium respectively.

The extra fine should give a reasonable working edge but I personally would finish on a 6000 grit waterstone then autosol metal polish or just go straight to the autosol, use it on a strop if you like I prefer to use it on a piece of MDF or softwood.

 

[Ramapo]

Thanks to all of you for the help ful replies.

Spamel: The tip on gripping the knife was helpful. I've been playing around, trying to find a grip that makes a consistent angle easier to maintain, and I think I've made some progress.

Antonino: £2? Too bad I've already paid for the DMT stones!

Tye: I definitely did not know that Moras have secondary micro bevel. If that was the case on my knife, it could explain some of my troubles. As for the aligner device, I have it, but it seems to be of little use on a scandi grind because it doesn't allow for continuous angle adjustment. Rather, it just has a few notches for pre-set angles...if your angle isn't a match, you're out of luck. It works great with kitchen knives though.

Good luck learning.

Weaver: Glad to hear a vote of confidence for the DMT stones. Regarding more practical practice: are the DMTs likely to wear smooth if I practice a lot? Hopefully they last a long time!

Also, good idea regarding the magnifying glass. I've got to track one down...

Robein Wood: Thanks for the link. Very inforamative. So...What do you think? Should I get my Clipper sharp with just the primary bevel and then put the micro bevel back on?

By the way, I was intending to move to the strop after the extra-fine DMT stone. I just haven't gotten that far yet!

Thanks again to all of you.

By the way, here's a specific question for you: How much downward pressure should I be using on the whet stones?

 

[spamel]

Not a great deal. If your finger tips are turning white then you're probably pressing down too much! I push enough for the knife to still be able to glide along the stone but it feels like the stone is doing something. Sharpening is one of those skills where it is so much easier to show somebody then to explain. I taught some guys when I was out in Iraq ow to sharpen mora knives on waterstones, they all went and bought their own combination stones and knives and then they started sharpening other peoples knives too! They learnt it really quickly, once you get shown it makes it so much easier. Take a look around your local area, maybe try the local butchers and see if they can show you the way.

 

[8thsinner]

One thing I would suggest is that if you have the angle gadget, find the closest matching angle and stick to it for good. by using nothing but that it guarantees sharpness.

The moment you go to hand sharpening to put a micro bevel on is the moment it will get as you say dull again. Consider this, the strop being leather is a compressable material, even if its backed onto a sheet of glass there will be some give depending on the pressure you will use. this effectively gives you a micro bevel, but due to the angle your moving at which has already been put on perfectly by the gadget that micro covex bevel will also remain constant and serve to increase edge durability.

Are you wanting to practice HAND sharpening with the cheap knife or do you want results quickly, they are very different things. Here is a successfull teaching routine to try at home.

Use the gadet to set angle of your choice with the rough stone, gently does it. The closer you get to the burr the more damage this stone will do to the edge which means more metal has to come off with the next stones than otherwise. I would set the angle and stop just before you get to the burr if you can. Experience will show this more clearly.
Do the other side again if possible untill just before the burr comes up.

Now take some masking tape and cover the handle half of the blade.

Now take your medium stone and sharpen the tip half of the blade untill the burr comes up, match this on the other side, Presure should be cutting away from the spine.

Now again only on the tip half, polish as finely as possible with the stone using as little pressure as you can moving towards the spine.

Finally strop this to a mirror finish and cut paper for a day or so, or shave your arm, or what ever you do to celebrate the edge. I think we all have our own little rituals here.

Then remove the tape covering the base half of the blade and pick up the medium stone again but this time with no gadget. do this half by hand, the pressure patterns stay the same, but you have the advantage of being able to test how much better you are getting by judging the tip half. When you come close to matching it by hand, you should no longer need the gadget, so you can send it my way.
haha

With the hand part of this exercise, setting the stone at the proper angle and draging back a horizontal blade you will get nearly perfect results much quicker than learning to control the precise angle of the blade with a stone which is horizontal.

BTW the reason I say angle sharpen the tip half is because this is typically where the angle differs slightly, and if your only learning, trying to keep not only an angle constant but also and changing angle percectly matched will be a hundred times harder.
Once your muscle memory has been set to sharpening you should try purely by hand this section.

One thing which helped me learn to be more precise is to try and sharpen a convex blade by hand, this has the advantage of showing you exactly how accurate your lines are...

Anyway, hope that helps.