ladies gundog gilet

jcr71

Tenderfoot
Aug 6, 2014
74
28
hampshire
hi all.
im looking for a gilet for the girlfriend to use at gundog training, so lots of deep pockets for dummies etc.
she brought one from ebay but our very excitable dog tore a couple of the pockets off in next to no time. he jumps up trying to get the dummies out of the pockets when he gets excited.
so looking for something thats decent quality and able to stand up to a very eager Labrador.
thanks.
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
8,479
8,357
Mid Wales
www.mont-hmg.co.uk
hi all.
im looking for a gilet for the girlfriend to use at gundog training, so lots of deep pockets for dummies etc.
she brought one from ebay but our very excitable dog tore a couple of the pockets off in next to no time. he jumps up trying to get the dummies out of the pockets when he gets excited.
so looking for something thats decent quality and able to stand up to a very eager Labrador.
thanks.

Some options here:

 
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jcr71

Tenderfoot
Aug 6, 2014
74
28
hampshire
Something like this?


How experienced is your friend with labradors and gun dog training?

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girlfriend has been taking the dog to classes once a week for about a year now. the dog has just turned 2.
the jacket you recommended would get wrecked i think due to the mesh on it. the dogs claws would tear the mesh in no time when he jumps up.
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
8,479
8,357
Mid Wales
www.mont-hmg.co.uk
Mmm... I have only ever had gun dogs (retrievers and spaniels), and I have never had one that is still jumping up after 6 months let alone 2 years. I appreciate that's not what you asked, and I agree with you about the mesh in general, but I'd be a bit frustrated (never good with dog training :)) if my dog was still jumping up after a year of training.
 

jcr71

Tenderfoot
Aug 6, 2014
74
28
hampshire
the trainer tells her the behaviour is quite normal!
if she wears shorts on normal dog walk she will sometimes come home with deep scratches on her legs from the dog jumping up trying to get his toys/ball off her.
when i was a youngster our pet dogs used to get a tap on the nose when they got out of line, but apparently thats not done any more?

the dog just gets over excited with things. his whole body will shake sometimes because hes so wound up.
 

jcr71

Tenderfoot
Aug 6, 2014
74
28
hampshire
Some options here:

after looking at the vests in your link i have ordered a deerhunter top.
it looks to be well made.
thank you
 

Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
1,526
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45
UK
Mmm... I have only ever had gun dogs (retrievers and spaniels), and I have never had one that is still jumping up after 6 months let alone 2 years. I appreciate that's not what you asked, and I agree with you about the mesh in general, but I'd be a bit frustrated (never good with dog training :)) if my dog was still jumping up after a year of training.
That's why I asked the question. If the trainer hasn't sorted this out after a year I'd be disappointed, to say the least.

A dog that has jumped up enough to trash clothing is not trained at all. I'd be interested (professionally) to know the circumstances in which the dog is jumping up? For attention/reward/interaction/demanding??. I may be able to advise on how to rectify this behaviour. Or depending on where the owner lives steer them towards a trainer that will solve it for them. Happy to help, as gundog training/working is my main profession.

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Nic 1084

Member
Jan 21, 2013
11
3
Berkeley, Glos
muntjac trading do a waistcoat for training and various materials and a couple of designs. my better half has had hers for 1 - 2 years and still going as if new
 
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jcr71

Tenderfoot
Aug 6, 2014
74
28
hampshire
That's why I asked the question. If the trainer hasn't sorted this out after a year I'd be disappointed, to say the least.

A dog that has jumped up enough to trash clothing is not trained at all. I'd be interested (professionally) to know the circumstances in which the dog is jumping up? For attention/reward/interaction/demanding??. I may be able to advise on how to rectify this behaviour. Or depending on where the owner lives steer them towards a trainer that will solve it for them. Happy to help, as gundog training/working is my main profession.

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thanks for taking an interest.

the dog lessons are at Exbury in the New Forest run by a chap named Gavin

my partner said he ruined the vest trying to get the dummy back out once shes put it away.

if shes picks up a stick or his dummy he will jump up at it, hes overstimulated my partner says.

but with a tennis ball hes learned to generally leave it using "dead" as a command.
 

Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
1,526
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Sorry for the delay.... been working over the weekend...

Has the dog done a lot of retrievel work with the dummy? If it has, then it's a possibility that the dog has a very high reward reinforcement in this specific exercise. Constant retrieval is a self rewarding exercise that increases behaviours with every retrieve. The more you do, the greater the increase in behaviour. Eventually, just the sight of the dummy illicits a chemical response in the dogs brain and it becomes stimulated. The very first retreive will be like dropping a bomb of stimulants into the dogs brain and it literally cannot control itself.....

If the dog has learnt some level of control around a tennis ball, it simply places a lower value on the tennis ball, and isn't as stimulated in this exercise so it can control itself.

Without actually seeing your dog in person I'm using experience over observation here, but I'd recommend stopping all dummy work for the time being and taking your dog back to basics of control. Your dog needs to learn that it has to control itself in every situation. I'd recommend that it must never be allowed to jump up at anyone at any time. This also means you cannot encourage the dog up fir a cuddle! (A dog has four feet, and they should all be on the ground). Maybe your dog has figured out that certain exercises only happen in certain environments, requiring separate behaviours/rules in those environments (another guess). If this is the case, your dog is constantly trying to adjust its behaviour to fit any number of environments, so it's in a constant state of stress.

A dog should be under control at all times in any environment, and this is achieved by keeping the basics of control the same, all the time. I've always gone with the maxim of 'control from the kennel' meaning: my dog is expected to be under my control at all times. I do not take a dog to an obedience club to 'do obedience' nor do I take a working dog to the field to 'do retrieving/recall'. I do all these things everywhere, from the point of leaving the kennel to putting the dog back in the kennel.

Traditionally, some trainers do a lot of hunt work and little to no control work because they think too much control work diminishes a dogs 'drive' to hunt. Absolute tosh. A well bred, well selected dog has instinctive drive, there should be no need to have to 'build drive'.

If your lab is highly stimulated, then what you should do is strip it all right back and regain control. No need for dummy retrieves, sounds like your dog has enough 'drive' for that already!

As with all things dog, I say potato, you say...... and the only thing two dog trainers will agree on is the third one is wrong.....

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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,413
1,699
Cumbria
I've not got got the experience of Van Wild but on a personal note on reading through this thread I had similar thoughts to some of V-W's points. I then read the above post and thought nothing more needs to be said about the training of the OPs dog. I hope the OP listens to the well meaning and good advice.

I had a friend who bred her gun dog lab and got a single male. It was jumping up but by 6 months it was still excitable but didn't jump up. She's an instinctive animal owner with good instincts. What she doesn't know she finds out too. That dog grew into a very fine dog with good gun dog abilities showing without training. It's had training since. Fox red but a very trainable fix red. Powerful dog with it. Good pedigree!

Without intending to sound harsh, we get the dog we create. The owner is often at fault for the dog's issues. That's not through conscious actions I might add and we're all guilty of it at times too. I know we've created our terriers issues but behind them we have a good, trained dog. I think it's half down to our dog as to us too.
 
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Ozmundo

Full Member
Jan 15, 2023
457
359
48
Sussex
The Finnish Surplus chaps have some heavy duty butchers aprons on sale. Might do the trick, sorry couldn’t resist it. ;)

 

jcr71

Tenderfoot
Aug 6, 2014
74
28
hampshire
just an update in case anyone is ever interested.
i got a Deerhunter waistcoat for the girlfriend.
it wasnt cheap(about £90) but the quality is excellent. 5 months on and its still as good as new.
several people in her dog group were so impressed that theyve gone and brought Deerhunter gear too.

im quite tempted to pick one of their coats up for myself now. it will be a step up from my usual Craghoppers wet weather jackets.
 

Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
1,526
1,360
45
UK
Lovely, I'm glad she got what she needed. Now...... has the dog stopped jumping up? (I say in jest, no offence meant)
 

Broch

Life Member
Jan 18, 2009
8,479
8,357
Mid Wales
www.mont-hmg.co.uk
Many, many, years ago I went to see the great Barbara Woodhouse do a demonstration on dog training. She was supposed to be able to train any dog. Members of the public took their dogs into the ring and she'd 'sort them'.

Well, one lady took her lab in and it would not stop pulling on the lead towards any other dog that was there. Ms Woodhouse took it in hand and walked it up and down, issuing commands - this went on for at least 20 minutes and the dog was still lunging.

At this point, she handed the dog back to the owner and said:

'he's oversexed, take him to the vets!'

- the whole audience was in absolute fits of laughter :)
 
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