L28 Ventile!!

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Bushmeister

Tenderfoot
Oct 20, 2005
75
1
47
Leicestershire
Hi everyone,

I have the opportunity to purchase 4 M of military spec L28 nato green ventile (100cm width) for just over £20/M. I am pretty sure the very heaviest weight ventile which normally isn't available to the general public, this is a pretty good opportunity!

However, I need to know from those far more exprienced than me, is this enough fabric for a simple smock (I'm 5'9" and 44 inch chest) and does anyone have a simple pattern I could use!

I am looking to make a really simple cold weather outer smock, with a hood and then sew a fur ruff on.

Thanks for your help!

BM :)
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Should be about right (quite jealous actually).

This was out of lighter weight stuff but the pattern is about as simple as it gets...
Image0090.jpg


SmockBasic1.jpg


Theres quite a bit of information on homemade smocks here, have a rummage

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

Bushmeister

Tenderfoot
Oct 20, 2005
75
1
47
Leicestershire
Thanks Ogri!

That smock looks perfect! But the diagram below it is fairly meaningless to me! I have thread searched, but most of the smocks are for something more complex or made of woollen blankets...
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
No worries Bushmeister
The pattern is laid out as if it were flat - a large cross shape with a head hole in the middle (the "T" shape)

the top piece of the "T" folds along its length(blue line) to become arms (sneakily with no shoulder seams) and the upright part of the "T" becomes the body. The pieces cut out from the original rectangular piece of material become extensions for each arm, the front pouch pocket and the hood which rolls away into the collar. The squares are the pieces inserted into each armpit to give the garment shape around a torso.

For me it is ideal as I can wear it over a t-shirt in summer with the sleeves rolled up or put a liner inside it and over two woolly layers as a winter coat.

Try out a few ideas with some folded paper then measure some existing clothing to find the size you want.

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

Bushmeister

Tenderfoot
Oct 20, 2005
75
1
47
Leicestershire
Ahh! That makes sense! Would a one metre width work with this pattern though? Might not be wide enough?!. Do you have the pattern handy or was this a improvised 'suck it and see' project. Only, I wouldn't have a clue how to do a decent hood, and with over £80 material, don't want to muck it up!!
 

Highbinder

Full Member
Jul 11, 2010
1,257
2
Under a tree
Bushmeister, I know not a thing about sowing, but would it be possible to buy some cheap fabric to test out the design on first? If you do a testrun using normal cotton, perhaps, and then once you have it dialled in take it to the ventile?
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Ahh! That makes sense! Would a one metre width work with this pattern though? Might not be wide enough?!. Do you have the pattern handy or was this a improvised 'suck it and see' project. Only, I wouldn't have a clue how to do a decent hood, and with over £80 material, don't want to muck it up!!

Bushmeister
Ah, that might be a problem, my material was 60 inch wide - (And it works out much less per meter, so I might question your supplier). The actual pattern was hashed out of many measurements of existing clothing with bits added and modified - so didn't actually exist as a pattern proper.
Mine is in a constant state of re-modification - hoods, cuffs, pockets etc so I can't necessarily say that it is finished!
Try one from some cheap linen that can become a liner as mentioned.

I only cut my material after lots of measuring, comparing, trial and error and lots of fireside pondering.

Ogri the trog
 

Bushmeister

Tenderfoot
Oct 20, 2005
75
1
47
Leicestershire
That is an excellent idea! But given my appalling sowing skills, it would probably take me 100 man hours to get 'dialled in'!! A slightly more planned approach, will I suspect, be better for me, as I have no real tailoring skills..... Even then I think I will still do a mock up first as you suggest. Only doing it all by eye and guess work (no idea how to do a hood, or a collar which a hood can roll away into!) - I will probably need 100M of normal cotton, before I get it right!!
 

forestwalker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Somewhere, IIRC over at Wintertrecking, there was someone who disassembled a Swedish army snow smock and make a pattern from it.

And I agree with others here; go out and buy something cheap (IKEA or Goodwill bed sheets are perfect) and try your pattern out. Pin the trial one (or sew with huge stiches), and when you are happy you can take it apart and use as a pattern (keeping seam allowance in mind). This is what I've done when making copies of historical garments more advanced than a T-tunic, and a lot of fabric has been saved over the years. Even in Ogris dead simple pattern there are things that can trip you up, and a hood is tricky to get right where it joins the body, and sleeves can bind if not right.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,143
2,880
66
Pembrokeshire
Patterns for sewing Viking era clothes
with thanks to Sonja Carlson and The Viking Age Club of Minneapolis
I also have a page with patterns for Viking shoes


NOTE: MAKE A MUSLIN PATTERN FIRST!!! It's easier (and cheaper) to make necessary alterations/adjustments with a muslin pattern and you have a pattern for future use.
The cloth should be wool or linen. HINT: large tableclothes are good source for linen. Try looking in 2nd hand shops, Goodwills etc.


SEWING THE TUNIC OR KIRTLE (DRESS)
The tunic/kirtle was either loom shaped (design features such as the neck opening were shaped during the weaving process) or cut and sewn after weaving. Basically, it is two rectangles sewn together to form the body of the garment and two additional rectangles added for sleeves. The following pattern is one that I found simple to use and one does not need to be a tailor to sew it, either!


(to make a Tunic, measure from the shoulder to the knee, rather than to the ankle.)

1.Measure from shoulder to shoulder and then take the tape measure and measure around the chest. 1/2 the chest measurement should be close to the shoulder to shoulder measurement. Use the larger measurement. Take the shoulder to shoulder measurement and add 1/2" - 1" seam allowance on both sides ( up to 2" if you desire). This is the width that you want to use. For example, for a child that has a shoulder to shoulder measurement of 15" and a chest of 26", you would use a piece of fabric 16" - 17" inches wide. Because 1/2 the chest measurement is 13", you would use the shoulder to shoulder plus seam allowance.

2. Now, measure from the top of the shoulder to the knee or ankle depending on whether you're making a tunic or kirtle. This is the length of the garment. if you're cutting the tunic/kirtle in one piece and therefore having no shoulder seams, double the length and note the top of the shoulder. Also to make walking easier, flair the dress from the knees to the hem. You could also put in gussets, if you're adventurous. The tunic could be flared from waist to knees ( and with or without gussets).

3. Now, you have the basic sleeveless tunic/dress. Mark out a circle approximately 4"-6" in diameter, lying across the shoulders with about 4 inches of it on the side that you want to use as the front.

4. Mark a 4"-6" slit down the front from the circle. This is the front opening. Finish the front in one of two ways:

A. Simply cut out the circle and front opening slit and sew bias tape over the edges.
OR
B. Cut out a keyhole-shaped piece of fabric large enough to extend about 2 inches around the neck hole and front opening slit. Sew this to the outside of the tunic, right sides together, sewing about 1/4" inch from the edge of the neck opening and turn it through the opening and turn it through the opening to the inside of the fabric. Now, turn over the bottom edge of the facing and sew along it to prevent fraying. An alternative to this (and less time) is to zig-zag along the bottom edge without turning under and then apply Fray-Check to the edges. After this is done, tack the facing down at the shoulders to prevent it from flipping up.

5. If sleeves are to be added, take the following measurements:
LENGTH: Long sleeves: measure from shoulder to wrist 3/4 sleeves (elbow length): measure from shoulder to elbow Short sleeves: measure from shoulder to middle of upper arm
WIDTH: Start with the measurement around your shoulder and then measure around your upper arm, elbow and wrist for long sleeves. For shorter sleeves, do the same except stop measuring at the appropriate place. For example, if you wanted 3/4 length sleeves, you would measure around your shoulder, upper arm and elbow. Mark out the measurements adding 3"-6" for ease and seam allowance. The 3"-6" allows the sleeve to be snug or blousey. Taper from shoulder to wrist ( or elbow or upper arm). You should have an inverted trapezoid shape. Now lay the sleeve pattern out with the bottom edge on the sleeve edge of the fabric (the finished edge). if you do this, you won't have to hem the bonom sleeve edges. You may want a drawstring casing for drawstring sleeve heming.

6. Hem bottom of tunic or dress. Add decoration(s) such as trim or embroidery as desired.



Regia Anglorum - Basic Clothing Guide
Tunics and Dresses


The sleeves are tight on the forearm and baggier on the upper arm. On most garments the sleeves are long enough to reach the knuckles or cover the entire hand.

The upper body of the tunic is relatively close fitting, while the skirt is loose fitting. A tunic should reach to the knees or just below when belted and the dress should cover the ankles (and possibly trail at floor level).

The skirt was made as full as possible by adding panels (or gores) into each side, or as we see later - even into the front and back of the garment.

Bands (or facings) were sometimes added to the cuffs and around the neck; these can be decorated with embroidery or left plain to provide contrast and to protect the large pieces of cloth beneath. Occasionally men's tunics have a wide band indicated around the base of the tunic as well.

New members should start with a very plain tunic - decoration should be limited to applying a facing in a contrasting colour.

Basic Construction
Quantity of Cloth
First the cloth - the following assumes that the cloth is about 54-60" (135-150cm) wide - this is the typical width of modern machine made cloth - although the pattern means that you can use cloth from about 24" (60cm) wide - depending on the build of the wearer.

There are two important measurements to take - the chest size (or the belly size if that's bigger) - and then length of the garment. The length of the garment will tell you how much cloth you need. You will need enough cloth to hang over your shoulder to at least mid shin/calf - also remember that the cloth will shrink on washing - so you may want to add 5-10% for shrinkage.

If you want wider side panels or extra panels in the front then you may want to get a bit more.

An example of this is for a man 5'10" (180cm) weighing 14st (90kg) you will need: A piece of cloth about 7½'/2.25m long - the chest measurement is about 44"/110cm round. The sleeves and gores are both about 2'/60cm long and about that at their widest points. A dress for someone of similar size would take about 9'/2.75m long.

The cutting pattern
This is quite simple - so don't panic.

The overall plan for the pieces is shown on the left - you will need to cut one long panel for the body - a single piece of cloth - the width being half the chest width (+ a bit for seam allowance - normally 1"/2cm).



(1) The neck hole is in the middle of the cloth. It is not positioned centrally - it is normally about 2/3 to the front of the body and 1/3 to the rear. The simplest type is a large square or oval - however - wool and linen doesn't stretch like a t-shirt and this will be quite loose at the neck - a 'keyhole' neck with a slit down the front is not that much more complex (see the diagram). It is probably a good idea once this is cut out and hemmed to try it on to see where the middle point actually is (you will need a friend for this probably!) and then to remeasure the lengths (so allow a little extra at each end when you start).

(2) The sleeves are about the same length as the cross chest width (again you can make them slightly longer if you wish. For a male tunic they should extend to the knuckles or even the finger tips). The wrist should be small enough so that the hand will just fit through - but remember - the hem and seam will take up additional space so you will need to allow a bit for this. As guidance - the wrist on the example tunic is 10"/25cm wide and the arm length is 25"/63cm.

Sew the sleeves to the body to form a cross.



(3) Sew the underside of the sleeves - leaving about 3" (8cm) at the armpit to put in the gusset.

(4) Sew the two gores to the front of the tunic (having sewn them together if they are made from two sections rather than one). They should start from about the top of the hips or just above (in the example tunic they start about 22"/55cm from the shoulder line).



(5) Pin the body together inside out and sew from three inches below the armpit down the side seam and then along back/gore seam.

(6/7) Sew the gusset to the front of the tunic and then to the back.



Now hem the base of the tunic and the cuffs.

Facing can now be added on the neck (and cuffs) (a). More expensive tunics may have a matching wide band of coloured cloth around the bottom. Higher ranking tunics may have tablet weave braid or embroidery around the facings.

Variations
Additional gores can be added to the front of the tunic (don't worry about going exactly up the middle of the tunic - the archaeological evidence seems to indicate that this was not essential - or even the norm!) (b)



These I copied of items on the web and used as a basis for some of my kit - I am afraid that the drawings have disapeared here but if you google the "Viking Patterns" you may find the origial articles copied here :)
 

Bushmeister

Tenderfoot
Oct 20, 2005
75
1
47
Leicestershire
Thanks John - that's really helpful! Will do as everyone suggests and start mucking about with some sheets!!

Does anyone have any experience with the L28 ventile? It looks pretty heavy compared to the usual stuff used for civilian clothing. Will stitching be a nightmare?
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,143
2,880
66
Pembrokeshire
The smock in my avatar was made from these instructions (plus a hood and extra long sleeves :) ) using a blanket - one of my favourite makes!
 

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