Knife vs Kukri?

[OldJimbo]

That would be a good option, especially with a small saw included.
Here where carrying a firearm is considered sensible at certain places and times, I still get strange looks for carrying big blades to clear trails. So there are considerations other than how a blade works.

 

[sirupate]

I carry a kukri quite a bit in the UK woodlands, but I carry it in my rucksack, and when I'm abroad (depending on where I am) I carry it openly, ie jungle.
Just one thing bambodoggy, the kukri is a utility blade first, and a weapon second, and some of the Nepalese woodland is very similar to the UK.
I personnally find a kukri does most jobs with ease, and has for the last 36 yrs been my prefered carry, due to its versatility, pics below;

The tree had snapped in half from the storms

My son getting a bit of practise in

As you can see its a very versatile and adaptable knife

Cheers Simon (not sure how it ended up here)

 

[oetzi]

Its those multi-purpose attributes, rather than the pure chopping, which I like in a Kukri.

 

[bambodoggy]

Sirupate, I'm really pleased you like your Kukri....as I said they are a heck of a knife and certainly very useful to have with you. All I am saying is that they are not the only option you have.
Everything you have shown in your photos I (and I'm sure most others here) can accomplish just as well with our Leuku or our axe....I produce my best feather sticks using my leuku.....but my leuku is a fair bit lighter and in more extream low temps will out perform both kukri and small axe.

I lived in Pokora in Nepal for a while and was told by many of the elder people there that the kukri was indeed invented/designed as a weapon however it is so useful as a multi purpose utility knife that has now become it's main function. If this is incorrect and you have a more reliable source then I'd be very keen to hear it, I have a very soft spot for the people of Nepal and certainly wouldn't want to be incorrect about an important part of their culture and history.
You're very right about parts of Nepali countryside being similar to our woodland but as you'll know if you've been (and I'm guessing you have from your knowledge) that they also have most other types of terrain there from steamy jungles up to high mountain plateu...I think the kukri has become such a useful tool because it has been a very effective "jack of all trades".....but again it's not the only one.

Anyway, welcome to the front of the forum and nice of you to share your photos with us, I'm presuming it's just the camera angle on that pic of your son and that you don't normally allow him to chop with that kukri while using his leg as a back stop!

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[Woods Wanderer]

i heard it was adapted from a type of sword
personally i prefer my axe a few inches to sharpen and plenty of power though i have thought about a tomahawk recently

 

[Graham_S]

the design is reminiscent of the Greek kopis sword.
it's possible that the design of the kukrhi is related to it as Alexander the great was in the neighborhood with his army.

 

[bambodoggy]

i heard it was adapted from a type of sword
personally i prefer my axe a few inches to sharpen and plenty of power though i have thought about a tomahawk recently

It doesn't suprise me at all that the design idea came from a sword, in fact combined with Graham's Alexander the Great theory it makes perfect sence.....I think I'm right in saying that the Bowie knife was bourne when a Cutlas/Sabre was snapped and then used as a knife but I'm sure the lads over on BB know more than me.
I wonder if the same theory applies to the fairbanks commando dagger and the Epee?

I am on my second Tomahawk at the moment, both from cold steel. I tried the Rifleman's hawk but found it too heavy and unwealdy and have now changed to the Trailhawk which is very good for most tasks but pretty useless for splitting (blade too thin).

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[Graham_S]

the fairbairn sykes commando knife was allegedly patterned after an egyptian sacrificial blade.

 

[leon-1]

I wonder if the same theory applies to the fairbanks commando dagger and the Epee?

If you mean the [size=-1]Fairbairn and Sykes style commando knife, not very likely unfortunately Bam, good thinking though. IIRC It was based on a Shanghai street dagger.

The earliest examples of daggers are back in the bronze age if I am not mistaken and the word Dagger originates from the latin daca, which I believe was a dacian knife.

The Epee that we use today is really a descendant of the Rapier

Apologies for going off topic
[/size]

 

[nickg]

I wonder if the same theory applies to the fairbanks commando dagger and the Epee?

the handles of both are based in the french schools of swordplay - the french grip is based on the thumb and forefinger pinching the base of the handle with the other fingers loosley gripping the rest of the hilt. This allows the blade to be 'rolled' around in the hand surprisingly rapidly, the same grip is used in modern olympic fencing today and if you ever see the speed and accracy of an olympic epeéist youy will not doubt its value. The opposition to the french grip is the italian grip where the forefinger is curled around ythe quillion or guard (hence the reason for the ricasso - the part of the blade nearest the hilt which is unground and unsharpened. The masters of defence in the 16th and 17th centuries were very divided on the subject claiming variously that the frnch grip was too weak in the hand or that the italian grip was too slow and left the finger vulnerable - the argument waged hot as these guys used to Practice with sharp swords in those days. just FYI

Cheers Nick

 

[bambodoggy]

Lol...as I said, others know more but I'm glad you guys could see my reasoning

I've had little to do with daggers and have only seen/heard of the commando dagger a couple of times as it's just not my thing and I have no use for it.....my apologies for getting the name wrong! lol

I'm a BFA club leader and so know a bit about fencing and I found your post really interesting Nick, thanks

Now I've really dragged this thread off topic....sorry everyone

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[jamesraykenney]

If a person is getting into big traditional blades, then it's a good idea to read over Jean-Marc's safety advice starting here:
safety
and continuing with his other articles to be found over at Outdoors-Magazine.

Deflections are a big issue with blades having lots of curvature, and so a person has to be very aware of safety, until skills are gained. My kuks all came with poor edges despite being better ones. It's essential to put in some work to remove any tiny secondary bevels which will further promote glances.

Traditional blades whether goloks, parangs, kuks, billhooks etc. etc... work better than a person will ever guess for the first few months of use. Eventually by accident the user will discover some version of the draw cut and find that it is not a myth. In the meantime though, it's hard to think of the blade sailing through a sapling without slowing when each chop cuts in exactly as deep as expected. One day, though, the seemingly impossible will happen. Then anything in the path of the blade is in danger.

I guess anything which is highly effective for cutting is dangerous. Just go slowly and carefully until things come together.

I will second that... My golok completely buried itself in a tree limb I was chopping with it...
It was about a 6 inch thick rough bark hardwood limb.
The first chop knocked off some of the bark... The second chop maybe did a little 1/2 inch chip... Third missed the first hit and did another 1/2 inch chip...
Fourth.... Yikes!!! The thing just went in and kept going until it was all but 1 inch!!! from the other side... Scared me to death... I already knew that it could go VERY deep into wood, when it was swung just right... But all but an inch through a 6 inch limb???:yikes: That I did NOT expect... I am just VERY glad that I was not any stronger... If that thing had gone through, I do not know if I could have stopped it in time... Add to that a 15 foot limb falling on me, and I think that I would have been somewhat the worse for wear...

 

[sirupate]

Hello Bambodoggy, I'm glad you spent time in Pokhara? Yep I have been to Nepal quite a bit, taught kukri out there to the then instructor to the Gorkha Commando's, and I have a few friends in the Gurkhas, recentley I have become aquainted with, and I am hoping to spend some time with Captain Indra Gurung (Chief Instructor of the Royal Gurkha Rifles Unarmed Combat School, and Gurkha khukuri training).

It more than likely that that kukri evolved from the Greek Kopis, and that battlefield kukri of the 17th. and 18th. centuries were a reflection of that link, although the khuda was used a great deal.
However the general kukri carried in Nepal which can these days be broken down into two different types, are predominately for utility first and combat second, certainly most of the MK models produced for the Gurkha's reflect that as well.

I have in the hills and Jungle of Nepal seen the kukri used quite a lot as a utility tool, and with all the Nepalese I have met the kukri is seen as a tool first. Certainly the MKV issued to the Gurkhas at the momment is a basic camping tool and nothing more.

For me the kukri is the most versatile blade I have come across, but thats just my personnel opinion. Your right my the photo makes it look like my sons foot is on the tree stump, mind many old timers do it that way, its all down to positioning.

Also regarding the F/S knife, it was infact Wilkinson Latham? (a cutler for W/S, I can't remember the spelling exactly) who came up with the design for Captain Fairbairn and Sykes, after they did a demo for him on the sublcavion attack, and their requirements for a fighting knife.

Also the origins of the Bowie design are hotley disputed, the one I think makes sense, is the one where Rezin Bowie, was attacked by a boar, and tried to stab it with his Spanish dagger, and his hand slipped into the blade, and he cut himself quite badly, he went to a local cutler (James Black?), explanied what had happened, and the cutler came up the new design, which nobody knows for sure what it was.

Cheers Simon

 

[bambodoggy]

Wow, fantasticly detailed info there. Many thanks

I said it lower down and I'll definately say it again now, it's a heck of a knife!

I think there's also been some confusion, I certainly didn't mean that the Kukri is seen as a weapon in Nepal itself, or really in much of that part of the world where it's utility use is common place, I was meaning more wondering through customs in say miami airpost.
I guess it's the same with parangs and machettes, they aren't viewed as anything more than a tool in south east asia but carry one in the british woods and everybody thinks of you as being a jonny rambo wannabe.

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[mrostov]

I have several kukris, one an old Indian Army officer's model from the 50's and the rest are from Himalayan Imports. The one I use the most is an HI blade of their 16.5" WWII (Dehradoon) model that is slender almost to the point where it might be called a Sirupati style rather than a WWII style.

They are great knives, especially in the desert. The Sonora desert of Arizona is the most vegatative desert in the world, and aside from the fact that 90% of everything has a barbed spine on it, much of your cutting needs are surprisingly similar to the jungle. I've found the kukri to be an extremely good knife for this terrain.

I made my own small knife and my own sharpening steel and ditched the ones that came with the kukri. A Mora makes a great small knife for a kukri sheath and I made a combo sharpening steel/notching saw/scraper/file out of a small Nicholson file and a piece of oak.

I do like the setups that Oetzi and Sirupate have.

For the forest, I prefer a hatchet a bit more, like my old Estwing 24a, and I've found the hatchet to be a lower profile item which is a good feature in todays world. The kukri is great but it can stick out like a sore thumb and that often something to avoid. Out in the desert there's usually no one to bother you so you could pack around a Panzer tank and no one would really care or even notice.

In some climates, like in the thickets of eastern Texas, a kukri is nice, but a machete is better.

 

[Shambling Shaman]

The Kukri is the ultimate genuine bushcraft knife. The Nepalese up in the hills simply dont go outdoors without one stuck in their belts even today, IMHO you cant get a better cred than that, and they literally do everything with them from felling trees to lighting thier ciggys.

Having spent a little time with the 7th Rifles I would have to agree with you Nickg

 

[sirupate]

Hello Morstov, thats quite unusual for an HI WWII, they tend to be quite bolo in blade shape, rather than the classical WWII in Oetzi's post, got any pics?
Below is a typical kukri found in the woodlands in Nepal, they do vary from place to place as requirements differ

Hello Shambling Shaman, spent some time with 7GR? that must have been a while ago, you can't be far of my age