Knife-making: looking for advice on starting out

[Crazivan]

Hi,
I've been using the search function extensively but can't quite seem to find the exact information I'm looking for. Basically, I quite like the idea of making a couple of knives as gifts for my brothers. I'm hoping to make them with materials that have a connection to us (i.e. scales from the wood of a tree we grew up with -- I have a choice of apple or cherry; not sure if either is a good bet though). Ideally, I'd like to make the whole thing from scratch (stock removal using either ground flat O1 tool steel or an old file -- if I can find one). I've seen quite a few tutorials on the matter, and the process looks fairly straightforward (this is probably ignorance talking!), but I'm looking mostly for advice about tools and where to source appropriate materials. I have a limited selection of general purpose diy tools, a small vice (not very good though) and a workbench, but I don't want to spend a fortune acquiring things that I'll never use again; so my main question is what basic selection of tools would you recommend, and where would you buy them? I don't have any files, so I know I'll need some, but I'm not entirely sure whether a cheap set from ebay would work, and neither am I sure about exactly which ones I'll need.

Any advice you can give me, regarding tool selection, places to source tools from, or good places to buy materials from is extremely gratefully received. Likewise, any advice you can give me more generally is also welcome!

 

[DaveBromley]

There are a couple of routes you can take when looking at stock removal, the first and cheapest is hand tools. All you need to do is get a decent Bast*rd File (flat would be best) and maybe a half round nicholson file. Then build yourself a jig (there are some great threads on here and also on british blades) you can then file out the basic shape before adding bevels etc. A hacksaw is always valuable and a vice is a must IMO. Most of the work can be done with one or 2 files and then finished with wet and dry abrasive paper. BUT I would say that this method (having done it myself) is Very labour intensive and TBH doesnt always give the best results.

I progressed from this method to using a belt grinder (which i still use) I got mine from Axminster Tools for the princely sum of £51 including delivery. It has a 1 inch wide belt which is good for shaping stock and also for putting on the bevels either with the use of a jig (my preferred method) or freehand (a dark art that some here advocate). This will then require finishing with wet and dry as before but takes a lot of the legwork out of the initial stages and allows a more uniform result, again IMO.

I would suggest that a few knives will turn into many many knives as once you make your first and then think of all the ways in which you could improve on your second, third, fourth etc you will be hooked for life. I for one only wanted to make a gift for my brother in law and am on number numbers 9 and 10 already!!

You will find your own way and i look forward to seeing the pics of the finished blade, i hope this has helped a little and if you want to chat about it more drop me a PM

Dave

 

[bigegg]

rather than use a file as raw material, try to get hold of a circular saw blade.
I picked up a 24" one at a farm sale a few years ago - just over 5mm thick -
spark tested as a high carbon steel, and got about a dozen blades out of it.
Even a standard 7 1/4" will yield two or three blades.
Industrial hacksaw blades are also a good source of stock.

You may find that modern, cheap, files are case hardened mild steel - absolutely useless
to make knives with.

As to tools - I use a bosch 75mm belt sander, and some files I bought from a car boot sale.
I spent a whole summer filing the bevel on a 3ft sword blade by hand - good practice, but b****y hard
work.

The japanese swordsmiths use a "sensuki" to form the final bevel - sort of a drawknife/scraper which is
pushed along the blade and removes a thin sliver at a time.
Reasonably easy to make if you can anneal a file (to make it soft), remove the teeth, then temper it again.
which you'd have to do if you were going to make a knife from an old file, anyway.

 

[TurboGirl]

Please pardon me for a quick resurection here but this thread is just about right for my knowledge level I'm looking to buy some stock to play knifey with Sasquatch's hand jig so as my arms beat nothing harder than a cake mix, I'm wondering what the best grade of steel is to form a bevel easiest- is 01 the best compromise?

I remember being advised to go for a second cut engineers file as the tool to do it I've got a pedestal & angle grinder, metal bench saw and boundless enthusiam (now, anyhow )

So far I've watch my OM make a crooked blade but thats on his milling machine and I want to produce a 2/3 finger skinner type necker myself

Oh BTW Crazivan, how'd it go? Where pics?!!!

 

[lannyman8]

Please pardon me for a quick resurection here but this thread is just about right for my knowledge level I'm looking to buy some stock to play knifey with Sasquatch's hand jig so as my arms beat nothing harder than a cake mix, I'm wondering what the best grade of steel is to form a bevel easiest- is 01 the best compromise?

I remember being advised to go for a second cut engineers file as the tool to do it I've got a pedestal & angle grinder, metal bench saw and boundless enthusiam (now, anyhow )

So far I've watch my OM make a crooked blade but thats on his milling machine and I want to produce a 2/3 finger skinner type necker myself

Oh BTW Crazivan, how'd it go? Where pics?!!!

Hey TG, hows it going????

right then, any file will do as long as its a metal file, the most important thing is how you use the file, if you keep pressure on when PULLING backwards it will blunt the file, make sure you lift off every time....

O1 is no compromise and is very good steel which is very forgiving when it comes to the HT (heat treatment), which is why allot of people use it, that said it is a very good steel , and if the HT is done correctly it will be very strong, tough, and last a life time.

as to what file to use, dont be in a rush here, its what will mess your work up, be under no illusions it will take a good long time, but good things come to those who wait....

with your tool i would do it this way:-

1 get some O1 ground flat stock posted to your door
2 mark the blade shape you like on the steel (experiment on paper and card first)
3 cut the rough shape with the bench saw and grinder
4 file the final (outline) of the knife with the file and sand paper
5 move to your jig and file on the bevels
6 use sand paper going through the grits round a flat bit of wood to finish the bevels, about 380 grit would be good
7 get the blade to a rough 380 all over where it will be seen, this will save loads of time later, after the HT
8 HT the blade
9 final sand polish to finish the blade, and handle the blade with beautiful wood
10 enjoy your knife for a life time

11 make a sheath or commission a maker if you like....

hope this helps, if you need any help just give me a pm, im always on here......

regards.

chris.

 

[Perrari]

Hi Crazivan
I started making knives in 2003, using a limited amount of tools. The minimum you will need is:

A vice & G clamp ( I used the clamp to hold the blade flat to the bench when filing the bevel)
Hacksaw (for roughly cutting out the profile)
Selection of files coarse & medium(try to get them at least 10 inches long it gives you better control, flat file for the bevel, but half round is useful on the handle)
Drill for drilling the blade & handle.
Various grades of Emery cloth & Wet or dry paper for finishing.
Blowlamp & a 5l can of motor oil for heat treatment.

I would not bother using an old file or saw blade, I would recommend getting some 01 steel (also known as ground flat stock) as it is already flat and will give you better results during heat treatment. You should be able to get a strip of 3mm x 30mm x 500mm from Buckandhickman.com delivered for about £12.
I would look at car boot sales for files and other tools, cheaper than ebay and you get to see what you are buying.

Making a knife this way is very time consuming, but also very satisfying. In fact take your time the results will be better, particularly when filing the bevel, it is virtually impossible to keep it totally flat and you will end up with a convex blade which will be fine for your first knife.

I have since started to make knives to sell last year, so have invested in a good belt grinder (Aly on British Blades) this does everything for me. If you buy a grinder in the future, dont make the mistake I did by buying a cheap Clarke grinder for £50, as it just about has enough power to strike a match, and stalls when you try to grind steel on it.

You say you have Apple & Cherry for the scales, both are really nice woods to work. There is always a good selection of scales on ebay as well if you fancy something more exotic.
There is an instructional on knives.com you may find useful, also British blades & you tube.

I hope I have been of some help to you, and good luck with making your first knife. I cant work out how to post a picture on here, otherwise I would send you a picture of my first knife.

Best Regards
Eifion

 

[TurboGirl]

Gosh, you guys are fiiiine, and thx fer asking, Chris, I'm absolutely grand!

I notice when looking for ground O1 stock that Cromwells have some brill sounding deals on their Kennedy files too so the wish list is getting longer... is it ok to start with a coarser eg ******* file then move to second cut to remove bevel stock quicktime- possibly half round on the coarser or is it not a good idea to mix 'em like that , I was thinking half round might give a better finish at the 'seat' of the bevel?? I've a good reach for a lass and am used to wielding a 24" bowsaw so will get 10" files.... and Ralgex...

I've got a cheap glass lampwork setup off a 25kg propane bottle, its not oxy mix unfortunately but I'm hoping it'll be hot enough to get sm-med blades cherry red, hopefully being a bit gentler than oxyacetylene I won't blue it tempering

 

[Perrari]

Hi again
Yes you can start with a B*****d file, especially on the profile, but I would only use it for a short time when doing the bevel, as I find if a file is too coarse it tends to slide over the steel to easily without 'biting' and does not remove the material as efficiently as you would hope. A second file would probably be better on the bevel from start to finish. But try it and see.

The engineers files like you have seen have one smooth edge, i would have this edge at the start of the bevel (handle end) this means you are only cutting downwards, and not towards the handle. This will give you a neater finish. You could clamp a small piece of steel across the blade to act as a guide when you start filing, by doing this you should be able to get both sides of the blade fairly symmetrical. I would not use a half round or round on the bevel, but ok for doing the blade profile & handle.

Your propane torch should give you plenty of heat to treat the blade, create a corner with fire bricks if you can and place the blade in it, this will allow the flame to swirl around the blade. This works much better than heating it up in fresh air.

I hope this makes sense ?

Regards
Eifion

 

[TurboGirl]

Yup, that makes sense to me although I'd've never realised that a coarser file could be less efficient! As we're 4x4 traders, might as well get the 2nd cuts in a coupla patterns then as they'll get all get used eventually

I bought a bargain 1940s enamelled woodburner for £20, awaiting restoration but all the firebricks are in there (in bits but they go together enough to make a good safe hearth for this with the old ones outta my lounge fire) and I've been given/ lent a hand bevel jig by a respected maker freind so if I'm careful and use your tip for symettry, I *should* be able to turn out something ok- unfortunately while finishing sanding the handle of my crook knife the little bleeder bit me, my fault for working while dying of a cold so I'm busy buying bits to finish the job, nickel pin and tubes to be cheap O1 is on order as 3mm x40mm x500mm, should keep me busy