Knife law,a question

[Armleywhite]

Yeah, see the confusion now. When I said carrying as a matter of course, I did mean when out, with the intention of hiking to a camp site etc, not just out and about town etc..

If out hillwalking for the day, my messtins, hexi, food, water and knife are all with me. Knife wrapped and stored etc until required.

 

[BigShot]

Yeah, see the confusion now. When I said carrying as a matter of course, I did mean when out, with the intention of hiking to a camp site etc, not just out and about town etc..

If out hillwalking for the day, my messtins, hexi, food, water and knife are all with me. Knife wrapped and stored etc until required.

With the exception of wrapping it... ditto.

Maybe I should start. In fact, it might be a fun little craft project to make a roll of some sort to carry my sharps.


I do worry that "good reason" might not stretch so well to camping/bushcraft eventually though. At the moment we do have "the generality of" s139(4) of the Criminal Justice Act in our favour - but I wonder if that will last.

 

[Armleywhite]

I never believd in the conspiracy bolo** about new world order and how it would come, but, here's the thing. Everything that a friend of mine predicted would happen, IS happening. Dumbing down of society with bucket loads of cack on the TV. tougher laws, yet no thought to their eficiency, more police. Media blowing all up like the proverbial plague. Only a matter of time before a blanket knife ban, except those that use them in daily lives, ie chefs, butchers etc.

 

[BigShot]

I'm sort of with you on the conspiracy front.
First I was sold on it after reading a lot without a critical enough eye... then wrote most of it off with the "naaaah! couldn't be!" argument and spotting a few of the howlers that are normally wrapped up in it...

...I'm now watching in fascinated horror as several things I'd written off seem to be happening and find myself thinking - maybe some of them have a point.
You'll never catch me in a tin-foil hat, or doing anything other than pointing and laughing at David Icke and the other "Lizardmen" fruitcakes... but either there's some HUUUGE coincidences going on, or some of the theories are onto something.

Since I started noticing the slow-motion train wreck unfolding before me, I started making my own predictions (all relatively orthodox conspiracy-nut material) for a laugh - even in the past couple of years I've seen people shocked at how accurate they were.
At times my phone has rung and the friend on the other end reports some prediction coming true ("turn the news on, quickly!" fashion) and admitting I might have had a point after all.

Makes you wonder doesn't it.


Are the people in power INCREDIBLY stupid but well intentioned and don't see the damage they are doing?
Or are they that evil they see it and do it anyway (or even desire it)?

I have to say I find it hard to believe they are that stupid - I don't think anyone who can spell their own name could be that dumb.

 

[Armleywhite]

Funnily enough we all laughed at David Icke, but have you seen the one where he comes back to Wogan, and makes Wogan look an utter fool. Everything he said then has come true. Forget the reptilian stuff, everything else is happening or has happened. Wogen ends up looking like right t*t in it.

I relly do think ther'e credence in a lot of it. Unfortunately the majority of peole automatically poo poo the idea immediately as "it'd never happen, no one could do that etc"

All I want to do is buy a small farm in the middle of nowhere and look after number 1. Not gonna happen though.

 

[wistuart]

Are the people in power INCREDIBLY stupid but well intentioned and don't see the damage they are doing?
Or are they that evil they see it and do it anyway (or even desire it)?

I have to say I find it hard to believe they are that stupid - I don't think anyone who can spell their own name could be that dumb.

I don't think they're either especially stupid nor especially conspiratorial. I just think they have become supremely arrogant over time and we have let them. The only time the politicians seem to give anything close to a damn about 'us' is the time immediately prior to election. They have completely forgotten that their role is to lead and represent us, not to control and suppress us.

Maybe we're getting what we deserve. After all, it's quite clear we all feel much the same way about how the law should treat knives and it is also clear many of us see a slow but steady progression to a point where we will no longer be able to use them freely in pursuit of our hobbies. Yet how many of us have done anything concrete to fight back against the creeping infringement of our liberties?

Ideas how we can get the ball rolling on this one? Between fishing and hunting forums, British Blades, here and various other internet groups focused on outdoor pursuits I'm sure we could very quickly get enough interest to make a campaign of some sort viable. However, most people, myself included, would need guidance as to how best to contribute.

 

[gregorach]

You don't need a conspiracy theory to explain politicians doing stupid and illiberal things. All you need is an understanding of the structure of the mass media, a bit of political economy, and some knowledge of history. Orwell and Chomsky aren't conspiracy theorists.

They're not evil, and they're not stupid - they're just looking out for their own careers. The sole objective for most politicians is to get elected - nothing more, nothing less. Sensationalism sells papers. Pandering to the papers gets you elected. Therefore, pandering to sensationalism gets you elected. QED. No conspiracy required.

Never posit a world-spanning secret conspiracy when the simple operation of self-interest is sufficient.

 

[BigShot]

Armleywhite - not seen that, no. I'll see if I can find it though. Icke bugs me in many ways, even if every (non-reptillian) thing he utters is totally true, it is discredited just by the fact David Icke is saying it.


Wistuart - I'm probably not the best person to ask.
I object to things even as far as the job of a politician being "to lead and represent us" - I'd much rather the original American idea...
...the federal government is inferior to the state, the state is inferior to the individual and the individual is soverign.
My ideal solution is an almost complete overhaul of the political system in this country, abolition of "constitutional monarchy" and establishment of a constitutionally limited form of government with recognition of and protection for inherent rights of person, property, speech and so on.
Plan B is bloody and violent and I wouldn't like to see that happen (though the result would be desrable - I'm not yet annoyed enough to believe the end justifies those means)

As for fishing, hunting, camping, bushcraft and all the rest coming together, it could work, but look at fox hunting. There was an army in the streets against that ban and look what happened.

Guns were political footballs a while back, foxes were political footballs more recently, now knives are the ball in play. It's got a horrible sense of inevitability about it and unless we can somehow spread a more holistic message of and desire for liberty in the UK, I can't see much (if anything) changing - sadly.
Apathy is almost the definition of "good men doing nothing".

 

[BigShot]

gregorach - if their entire point of existance is election and holding on to the reigns of power, there's no difference between them and the tyrants of old (and not so old).

They have set their sights on power for one of 2 reasons.
1> They intend good... In which case they are too dumb to see that they are the problem.
2> They intend to have power and control over other people (and possibly wealth - they aren't exactly paid pittance) and hold onto it no matter the cost - that is fundemtnally evil in my mind.

Some may cross from one group to another, but I see no third group in there. Dumb or absolutely horrible to the core (as one must be to desire to control other people so absolutely).

 

[Simon]

Are the people in power INCREDIBLY stupid but well intentioned and don't see the damage they are doing?
Or are they that evil they see it and do it anyway (or even desire it)?

I have to say I find it hard to believe they are that stupid - I don't think anyone who can spell their own name could be that dumb.

Neither;

The foundation for their existence is built on the fact that they will probably last in their jobs, if they are lucky, up till the next election, or if they are really lucky, beyond the next election.

Their primary and primitive motivating factor is hardly as pure as it should be given their role, and this is purely down to the needs of the animal inside to survive.

They need to last as long as possible but inside they know their time is painfully limited.

Just as anyone is, and just as a rabbit might be when confronted by approaching headlights, they are blinded and frozen by fear, and this fear takes on an autonomous role.

It is the fear of the future, of their future, that motivates their behaviour and steers them upon a myopic path where they are unaware and protected, due to complex mental gymnastics, of the implications and consequences of their choices and actions.

They are on autopilot, behaving as their autopilot tells them to do, and their autopilot tells them it's the right thing to do and they believe it, because why would they lie to themselves?

 

[BigShot]

Simon...
...why do they go for the job in the first place?

If they go for it for power, to control people or similar, they are, to my mind, fundamentally nasty people - that is how I'd describe anyone who desires power and control over other people. People like this should be removed from power immediately.

If they go purely as a career move they are deserving of utter contempt as they have wilfully chosen to be a complete drain on society with no intention to do good (ie. fundamentally nasty people). If they've gone in for career and are then surprised at the precariousness of their position they fall into the "incredibly stupid" category and deserve everything they get (and in both cases should be removed from power urgently).

If they go for it purely to do good, it isn't a career choice and so that shouldn't be a factor in their actions. If that later becomes an issue they have crossed over into the second group. It is possible they might change in a big way and join the first group.
If not and they keep doing bad things despite the consequences they are either too stupid for the job, or are wilfully screwing things up and they need removing from power.


Either they are too dumb, or too nasty for office.


Remember, these people need to get started on the road of career politics too... they actually get started in the same way they continue.
Hollow promises, intention to remove the public's liberties and so on. Look at early interviews with just about any current politician and you'll see they are as nasty (unsuitable for the job) naive (unsuitable for the job) or plain stupid (unsuitable for the job) then as later in their careers, I find it hard to believe they are just on autopilot and afraid for their financial security considering there's almost no chance any politically aware person wasn't aware of what they were getting into. (And considering every MP is on between 60k and 175k a year, plus an insane expence account including the purchase of 2nd homes - they aren't exactly hard up to begin with)
Parasites.

 

[Simon]

I don't think anyone does things for a purely a single reason, there are always complex factors involved.

probably a great deal of it, to begin with, is altruistic. but the environment they find themselves in rapidly erases any altruism.

 

[gregorach]

It is a well-known truism that the sort of people who want to run things are exactly the last people you'd want actually running things. The converse of this is that the sort of people that you do actually want running things are also the sort of people who wouldn't agree to do the job even if you put a gun to their heads.

The fundamental inability to solve this paradox is probably the single most important political factor in human history. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be anything we can do about it.

As for how much of a factor "genuine" altruism plays (if such a thing even exists)... People are remarkably good at convincing themselves that what's good for them is good for everyone else too - without realising that they're doing it. I'm pretty sure that Hitler genuinely believed he was doing the best thing for all concerned.

 

[BigShot]

Before anyone tries to invoke Godwin's Law, gregorach's mention of Hitler was perfectly valid.


I agree completely with the paradox between those who want power and those who are fit for the job.

The part I really object to is where what a person wants for themselves becomes imposed on me by way of restriction. A person's freedoms might be imposed on me (freedom of speech being one example) but that's perfectly fine (regardless of how offensive their speech is) but negative/restrictive impositions are no good.

 

[Tadpole]

. I'm pretty sure that Hitler genuinely believed he was doing the best thing for all concerned.

That I doubt very much, Hitler was not an idiot, I'm sure he worked it out that the disabled, the Rom, the Jews, the intellectuals, the old guard within the army, the displaced, the homosexual community, and just about anyone one who he disliked on a personal level were not going to welcome being tortured and eventually killed. He knew that what he was doing would only be a benefit the so-called Aryan raceand or his friends .

 

[BigShot]

Tadpole...
...he believed that by benefitting the Aryan race, his friends and removing the "less evolved" races he was improving the gene pool of mankind as a whole.

I believe he was mental enough to have believed that was a good act. Of course, it wasn't and no amount of belief could make it so, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was.


Disabled, the Rom, the Jews, Homosexuals.
All of those are "genetically inferior" (I include homosexuals there, it could just be a "depravity" thing, but either way he was "improving" the human race by removing them)

The old guard within the army.
Were largely to blame for the failure of Germany in the Great War and the suffering Hitler endured in it. He was making Germany stronger by removing them.


The displaced, the Intellectuals (and also the Jews and some others here too).
Were a drain on the hard working, white/ayran Germans and so should also be removed.


If you think about it in the twisted way Hitler did, you can see "good" in all the atrocities.

I'm not arguing there was a scrap of good in it, there wasn't, but it's accurate to say hitler believed it.

 

[Fraxinus]

"I'm not arguing there was a scrap of good in it, there wasn't, but it's accurate to say hitler believed it."
The above quote really demonstrates that so long as the person in charge believes an idea, ideal, a problem or a solution to a concept,belief, way of life or challenge thereto exists the masses will suffer, often wrongly. History has many a proof of this. Do we as a group named "mankind" challenge misconception and link arms together in unity against greater perils?
Or do we fold through fear of the unknown, the oratory of a biased speaker or thugs that strike in the dark with faces obscured, cowards each one!

And how the hell did we get to this from "can i have a knife in my motorhome?"

 

[Tadpole]

Tadpole...
...he believed that by benefitting the Aryan race, his friends and removing the "less evolved" races he was improving the gene pool of mankind as a whole.

There is no way he would have thought that "he was doing the best thing for all concerned." Maybe he thought what he was doing the best thing for his friends, or Pure germans, or even "for the greater good", but I doubt he though that what he wanted was best for "all concerned."

 

[wanderingblade]

Blimey - Knife law to Hitler in 2 pages!

Having said that, maybe there are similarities.............

"What luck for rulers that men do not think"

"I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few"

"By means of shrewd lies, unremittingly repeated, it is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell -- and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed"

"The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one"

...................:theyareon