Knife Clarification

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
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Aplogies if this is a long one.
Just thought it would be useful to have some clarification on the question of knife possession. I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure others would too, if only those who work in the law/legal professions answer, or those with a very good knowledge (as one or two seem to have). Also, I'd appreciate it if we could avoid any 'political correctness gone mad' responses - I'm not interested and don't want the point of asking these questions to be side-tracked by right-wing white noise. Don't want any 'not like that when my old man was a nipper' nor 'he's just an honest bloke'. The purpose of this post is to look at the law as it IS, not how it WAS, or how it SHOULD BE. We'll come to that later. Just trying to establish the current situation.
I'll try to frame my questions in a simple yes/no manner.
OK.
So, as I understand it, it is perfectly legal to have an UNLOCKING blade, under 3" (such as one may find on penknife/Swiss army knife type thing)?
It is illegal to have a locking blade OF ANY LENGTH or a fixed blade OF ANY LENGTH?

I am assuming that said blades are being carried in public, just in a pocket or somewhere, for no real purpose (i.e., I am not a tradesman, not going anywhere specific, just carrying the blade because they can, on occasion, be useful).

OK, let me paint a picture. Now, imagine I am going camping. But I am camping on public land, without permission, but away from where members of the public are likely to be (but public land nevertheless). I have with me a knife (will come to its description later). For whatever reason, a police officer comes along. He finds our camp and finds us with knives. Of course, the officer is not there to decide whether we are guilty or not, just whether we have broken the law or not. Let's assume we have LOCKING/FIXED blade knives with us. Since we are on public land, technically we have broken the law and so the officer arrests us, explaining it's up to the courts to decide whether we have reasonable excuse or not (for the purpose of this example, let's assume the officer is new and quite zealous and not using his discretion - a law is broken, he's decided to enforce it).
OK, it goes to court. Now, would it make any difference if the blade I was carrying was only 3", or much bigger - say, 6"? That is, a small blade is just as illegal as a big blade? Is this the same in the eyes of the law? And would it make any difference to the magistrate? (two quite different things)

Cheers for your help.
 

scanker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 15, 2005
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Cardiff, South Wales
This is without doubt the best resource I know of with details of the questions you're asking:
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39

The FAQs there have been thoroughly prepared and updated over a number of years with input from both police officers and lawyers.

I'd assume that camping was a "good reason" to be in possession of a fixed blade knife, so on that assumption the law has not been broken.

These sorts of question come up fairly frequently. It's a highly unlikely scenario. If you're not up to no good, you won't be challenged, searched or arrested by the Police.
 

Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
28,221
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~Hemel Hempstead~
If you're not up to no good, you won't be challenged, searched or arrested by the Police.

The only problem to that is if you're carrying a fixed blade in a sheath (as most of us are tend to do when out bushcrafting) it's on view and a pc may well decide to arrest on that ground. Then it'll be up to you to prove the need to be carrying it to the magistrates.
 
hi i am new to this site.so please forgive for beening a bit green about all this.
it seem to me that all this bother with knives has started over the what i call silly little boys that want to be big men and think that stabing another guy is the wright thing to do.so because of there stupied actions we must all pay.i fill that a knife is only a dangerous if it is the hands of these little boys.most people have good reason to have a knife on them but these boys use kitchen knives and that puts a bad name to all the knives.
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
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That website suggested by Scanker was VERY good. I do recommend it. One question though- what's an EDC?

As for the other responses (esp 'im spartacus') - I did ask for this post NOT to get sidetracked. Not interested in people's indignation - please keep it to yourself or post it elsewhere. Just trying to stay focussed on what the situation IS. Hope you understand. Please take a few seconds to think and review before pressing 'post'. Just want to keep focussed and not veer off as these threads are wont to do.
Cheers.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
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Glasgow, Scotland
Legal? Not in the terms of the '3", non-locking blade' requirement.

However, if you have a valid reason for using it (eg, work) and are carrying it directly to or from work, not openly displayed, and a police officer is satisfied that you have good reason to be carrying it, then you may not be charged.

I often have a Leatherman Skeletool in my workbag, but I no longer wear it on my belt, even in work. I am happy with that situation but I also realise that, under a black and white application of the law, I could conceivably be stopped and cautioned.

Whilst the law is fairly black and white in written terms, the application of the law appears open to interpretation by a police officer, BUT NOT BY YOU!

One police officer may arrest/charge/caution you, whilst another may be satisfied that you are no threat to the public and let you on your way. I would suggest, however, that, if you are arrested/charged/cautioned, then arguing the toss with the officer on the scene is likely to get you nowhere. Be calm, reasonable and helpful. If you feel you have been unfairly treated, get the services of a solicitor and make a proper legal challenge, rather than indignantly shouting 'Don't you know my grandad carried a machete!' or 'Why don't you arrest Ray Mears, then, eh?'

I'm not sure there's such a thing as an 'EveryDay Carry' anymore. If you are waving an 'EDC' in someone's face in a public place, it is now an offensive weapon (I believe? Legal advice req'd). Like the excellent BB forum articles suggest, you must assess the situation in each circumstance, and if in doubt, play it safe.
 

Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
28,221
3,198
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~Hemel Hempstead~
I'm not sure there's such a thing as an 'EveryDay Carry' anymore. If you are waving an 'EDC' in someone's face in a public place, it is now an offensive weapon (I believe? Legal advice req'd).

From what I have been told by several police officers an offensive weapon can be anything which is being used or can be used to attack. It doesn't have to be a knife. It's not about what the item is, it's about the intent in which it is being used.

So, for example, if you were holding a length of metal pipe or a lump of wood in your hand and were using it to threaten someone with it you could be arrested for being in possesion of an offensive weapon.... because it was being used offensively by you.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
53
Glasgow, Scotland
From what I have been told by several police officers an offensive weapon can be anything which is being used or can be used to attack. It doesn't have to be a knife. It's not about what the item is, it's about the intent in which it is being used.

So, for example, if you were holding a length of metal pipe or a lump of wood in your hand and were using it to threaten someone with it you could be arrested for being in possesion of an offensive weapon.... because it was being used offensively by you.

Good point! Now it's becoming even more confusing...
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,638
2,716
Bedfordshire
Moving to Edged Tools...

I would reiterate that these questions have been answered at great length, and in fact there is quite a long thread going on now in Edge Tools about the grandfather who got caught with a lock-knife.

If you look in Edge Tools you will find the following, relevant, threads as Stickies:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13160
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8233

However the British Blades Legal area is the best place since many cases and situations are discussed in detail.
 

Joonsy

Native
Jul 24, 2008
1,483
3
UK
your scenario is coming from the angle that you have already gone to court and await the courts decision, you will be encouraged in court to plead guilty (regardless whether you are or are not) as that way you will get a lighter sentence for not wasting the courts time (which is totally unfair) it's up to you to prove you had good reason to have a knife in public (you have already admitted your location was public ground) but don't forget it's also up to the court to decide your 'reason'' was good or not, sadly outside bushcrafty circles the bigger the blade the more menacing you appear, legal or not appearance sways decisions
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
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Good point! Now it's becoming even more confusing...

Really? I think it's becoming more clearer. To whit, it's not the person the law is interested in, so much as the intent. Therefore, EVERYTHING is both legal and illegal. If you act like a likely sort who is intent on trouble, or a mouthy sod who gives the police a bit of jip, you can expect a difficult day. If you are a respectable member of society, going about their everyday business then you can 1/ NOT expect to be pulled over by the police or 2/ if you are, if you act in a polite, respectful and responsible manner then you can expect to be told not to carry it anymore or, at worse, have it conviscated.
Of course, there will be the one or two idiotic officers (such as those who arrested Mr Reed) - and members of the public - who will aggravate the situation. But reading responses here, and the website recommended by Scanker, you can see that police officers here are not the neo-nazi twats that others who have posted elsewhere on this site have incited them to be. It is, as I've always suspected, a case of common sense holding sway, just recent circumstances have inflamed some. I strongly suspect that the likes of us are not the targets and needn't stoke ourselves up - it is the idiots the police and judiciary are after, and we need to keep these things in perspective. Exceptions will happen and it seems that Mr Reeds case was one such, alas. Can't legislate on one-off cases.
Phew.
 

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