Kit versus Skills?

[Ivan...]

Never mind , relatively expensive courses, in relation to income as we are talking about the leisure pound, each to their own , i think even if it were free and i offered tavelling expenses to come to one of my meets loads on here would find an excuse not to come , or back out at the last minute ! it has been offered in the past . I have noticed that a couple of organised trips on here have been cancelled due to lack of support , i think it is the financial climate we are in at the mo .

If any of us want to attend one of these things, with enough notice , we could all find the dough ..

But we are all aware of just how tough things are presently , and with no immediate solution , so those that can will , those that find it a struggle still might if they can and those who have got no chance won't !!

Its all about personal preference aswell, i wouldn't go on an arctic expedition if you paid me ..and let me keep all the gear afterwards !

 

[Shewie]

For everyone in the UK, this is a hobby. Its fun - its not real life. No-one "needs" bushcraft - it really isn't more vital than stamp collecting or building model aircraft or fly fishing or whatever. I don't really mind how other peoples choose to enjoy their hobbies - whether its collecting kit, or "getting out there" or dressing up in silly ways or fantasising about this and that lifestyle. Its all for fun, and its all, to most people, faintly silly.

Should we really, at this time of year, get bent out of shape over how people choose to pursue their hobbies?

Red

+1 to that

And Col, I'm with you on the new years resolution, I want a fat wallet and a bank account in the black again

 

[Wayland]

Whilst I accept times are hard for many. Fuel prices hurt and lots of people are worried about jobs and pensions etc.

I am talking about the simple choices we make every day. I chose to live my dream teaching and passing on skills. The price is I have no money and drive an old banger. Yet I work in some of the most beautiful parts of the world. I also get cold and wet alot.

Many people might not be able to afford a trip next month or in the net few months but there is nothing stopping you from making the dream happen in the future. Whatever your goal is you can achieve it if you are willing to make it happen. Make 2013 the year to visit Canada, Norway wherever.

For those that smoke quit and use the cash to fund an adventure. One less takeaway a month between now and next winter would give you cash to do something amazing.

I'm with you all the way there.

People say to me that I have a cool job. I have to agree but it comes at a cost.

On a day to day financial basis I'm told I would be better off on the dole. My wife isn't working either at the moment so life isn't easy.

I've had to save very hard to raise the money to do the Arctic course, I've accepted no bookings in that period and as I'm self employed that means I make no money at all. No one pays me to go on holiday.

You might wonder then why I'm doing it?

At the moment we have a thriving community of people that go to the regular meets arranged on this forum but on the whole they are limited to fairly local sites.

I travel quite a distance to some of them and have met some great people from one end of the country to the other as a result. With the cost of fuel as it is that can be a considerable investment in itself.

In fact it can be almost as much as a cheap return flight to Norway in the Winter.

I'm not just aiming to go on a once in a life time trip... I intend to learn the skills that will enable me to make trips like this for a lifetime...

 

[johnboy]

I didn't want to hijack Wayland's Lost Opportunity thread.

It seems to me that he is quite right that many Bushcrafters are far happier to pay for something shiny than pay for skills and experience.

It's hard to believe that with the number of regular members on here that Tony's trips to the Arctic have failed to be over subscribed.

I hear lots of excuses for not going on courses or trips generally from people with large shiny new cars and the latest gadgets.

It's about priorities I guess for me skills maketh the man and I am enterally trying to improve my skills and knowledge base. Others prefer a more materialistic measure of their self worth.

I suppose it depends on where you sit... If you're a skills provider you might be scratching your head if however you sell kit things might look a bit different...

I suspect if you surveyed the membership of BCUK for their reason for being 'here' you'd get a very diverse set of answers. Also is the general popularity of 'bushcraft' in the uk on the rise or is it declining??

Then add in factors such as commitment to actually go on a course, meeting costs etc and finally 'risk'. It's inherently less risky to spend your $$$$$$ on a bit of kit , going on a trip or couse is full of inherent risks, am I going to like the other course folk, will the instructors be any good, am I fit enough, will folk laugh at me ad infinitum. Spending $$$$$ on something inanimate you can research well is inherently less risky.

 

[jackcbr]

I use to favour anything that made things easier. Then, over the last couple of years and with the help of this forum and you guys (group hug) I realise that good skills are better. To the point this Christmas my list was empty. Everyone was asking what new kit would I like and I honestly couldn't think of any. Now I'm not saying I've got everything there is to have, far from it, but I have enough that allow me to practice and expand the skills I have.

I enjoy doing courses, but seriously need to be able to justify any expense these days. I would love to do the artic expedition and one day in the next couple of years I will. But I feel my skills need to be improved and my kit seriously upgraded first. We've put renovating the kitchen off for five years now. This years excuse is a trip to Canada. Managed to get free flights out there, now trying to find the money to do things out there.

 

[rik_uk3]

I'll never do any courses because my lungs, knees and back say 'NO'. However looking through the various threads/posts it would seem to me, and this is just a guess, that if they were offered inclusive of air fare things would be easier. This would mean more planning, departure from one UK airport and some leeway in pricing but if you said "The course is £x, fixed price and travel will be between £x and £xo folks would have a definite maximum cost to work toward, could plan car/rail/coach journey costs to the departure airport
and come up with a budget they could live with and plan for. This would also give fixed dates for the whole trip and while many can chop and change holiday leave many can't...they need to know where they are certainly a couple or three or four months in advance.


"I guess for me skills maketh the man" Possibly, "Man knoweth how much it is going to cost" makes a man happier and more committed perhaps?

 

[Chris the Cat]

A VERY good point Rik,
The flight planning for this is a mare! ( I'm not the best at that kind of thing, however !)
My best.
Chris.

 

[DUCky]

It is always a trade off between kit and skills. You can enjoy a purchase but might enjoy it even more if it actually proves useful in the field. Some kit you may never use and some skills you learn you may never use. Which is better? Who knows. I am rearing to go on the Arctic course, but if I got the chance to buy a reverse finish Lochsa, I don't know which I would prefer, the kit or the skills.
OK, the Arctic course would win, but it would be close

 

[lannyman8]

i struggle to pay my petrol fuel bill to get to work most months, so getting out is a right mair....

of course skills over kit every time, as how could you use the kit without any skills?????

shiney stuff for me is messing around with old bean tins making stoves and wood gas stoves.....money nil, fun lots...

 

[toilet digger]

i struggle to pay my petrol fuel bill to get to work most months, so getting out is a right mair....

of course skills over kit every time, as how could you use the kit without any skills?????

shiney stuff for me is messing around with old bean tins making stoves and wood gas stoves.....money nil, fun lots...

you'll always be shiney in my eyes

 

[Wayne]

The reason most courses do not offer flight included in the price is that they would then need to be ATOL bonded. That's £50000 most small businesses don't a have.

 

[FGYT]

The reason most courses do not offer flight included in the price is that they would then need to be ATOL bonded. That's £50000 most small businesses don't a have.

sure if they really wanted it an saved up maybe cut the christmas do back a little nthing stopping them from getting it in the future

 

[rik_uk3]

The reason most courses do not offer flight included in the price is that they would then need to be ATOL bonded. That's £50000 most small businesses don't a have.

Then really your on a sticky wicket from the off chap The 'all in' holiday Wayne will be a major issue for a lot I'd think. When I was nursing I could get time off when I wanted more or less BUT there is no way I could book the holiday without firm dates, no way I could mess them about subject to getting a flight or take a few days extra off, thats just not a realistic option for the majority of people.

Maybe for the next course a corp of members should get together and get a flight 'pool' of cash together for tickets going from one airport on fixed dates along side paying you a deposit. In the current economic climate where its often a struggle financially any 'what if's' need to be removed and replaced by certainty where possible.

I'd not book a villa in Spain without the certain knowledge I could arrive and leave on time (subject to the airlines not delaying).

All the best for the future chap and I hope the courses work out.

 

[Wayne]

I was explaining why Tony's course was not flight included. The last time I looked MR Mears trips did not include flights. What I do on my trips is research the flights first book my tickets for my team and arrange to meet the clients at the home airport. When then usually spend the first night in country in a hotel to allow others to join us if they need to make different travel plans.

Generally I also allow an extra day at the end for weather issues. This is generally used for sight seeing etc gives us piece of mind I have seen groups delayed for days by weather problems in remote locations when you can't get a float plane in safely or the wind cancels the ferry.

 

[Harvestman]

Unless it is pure knowledge (and that is arguably a skill in itself) most skills are either how to make kit, and how to use kit, so it isn't a clear boundary anyway.

Unused kit is a different story. I don't believe in collecting/owning kit if you aren't going to use it.

Personally, I now have more or less the kit I want/need/can reasonably aspire to with my budget, and therefore can concentrate more on skills, but having the kit gives me the time and convenience to be able to do more and be able to choose what skills I want.

There's a lot of personal choice involved. As has been said, this is a hobby for most of us, done for pleasure. I have great admiration for those who can process a freshly killed reindeer in the field, or build an igloo. Great skills, but I don't personally feel a need to learn them. I do my bushcraft my way, and there are things that interest me, and things that don't. That's fine, and respect to those who feel differently.

I'm tempted to say "rant over" but that was more of a ramble than a rant.

Ramble over.

 

[Wayland]

i struggle to pay my petrol fuel bill to get to work most months, so getting out is a right mair....

of course skills over kit every time, as how could you use the kit without any skills?????

shiney stuff for me is messing around with old bean tins making stoves and wood gas stoves.....money nil, fun lots...

And that's the best kind of shiney stuff too imho.

 

[vizsla]

Interesting one this. After looking at the trip details im saprised its not full up. After all mr rm courses are always full and cost alot more and alot of them are probably members on here. My girlfriend wanted to book me a weeks course for my 30th i umed an ared but gave it a miss as id rather just have a weeks trip with my two good mates and do things our way but thats just me obvously a hardcore trip like this can be better when done on a course.
Im sure alot of people on here have got all the best kit but it never sees any use hence all the rm knives for sale unused. Im quite lucky in that im close to lovely woodland so i get out quite alot although that may change abit if i have kids. Everyone has there own idea of bushcraft for me its something that untill recently it didnt have a name it was just a mixture of things i enjoy doing. alot of people dont have any urge to step foot in the arctic after all who decided the arctic is part of bushcraft personaly im hoping to get married there soon and cant wait. I love all aspects of bushcraft especialy getting out in the wilds and doing it but i end up spending more time making things at home to spend time with the missis.
Anyway iv just realised im probably talking too much. All im saying is everyone enjoys diferent aspects. And thinks of bushcraft in a diferent way.
I agree with most comments and think it looks like a great course and good look to all who make it

 

[lannyman8]

you'll always be shiney in my eyes

ahhhhh, bless....

 

[demographic]

Spending twenty or so notes is a hell of a lot more achievable than going on holiday for a week or two and missing out on that periods wages also.
Unless you are employed instead (holiday pay) of self employed (no holiday pay) that is.

 

[cbr6fs]

For everyone in the UK, this is a hobby. Its fun - its not real life. No-one "needs" bushcraft - it really isn't more vital than stamp collecting or building model aircraft or fly fishing or whatever. I don't really mind how other peoples choose to enjoy their hobbies - whether its collecting kit, or "getting out there" or dressing up in silly ways or fantasising about this and that lifestyle. Its all for fun, and its all, to most people, faintly silly.

Should we really, at this time of year, get bent out of shape over how people choose to pursue their hobbies?

Red

Agree 100%

One the main things that attracted me to this forum was it's diversity.
As i grab me cuppa tea in the morning and press that "New Posts" tab i really have no idea wat i'm going to see and read.
It could a fantastic carving, beautiful home made knife, ideas for making a stove, pics and report from someones trip, gear advice or many other different things.

Not everyone wants to visit cold climates, rough it in jungles, spend a week with total strangers, have to spend hours deciding on the right kit then hours finding the right prices and places to order it.
Only for it to be thrown into the garage never to be used again.

Exactly what is someone living say in the Midlands going to learn after spending 1 week or longer in the artic?
How many of those tips are even valid in warmer climates?
I'd be surprised if even 1/2 of this forums membership would even bother going out for a weekend wild camping in the snow.

Sure it's a life time ambition for many to visit some of these places, but for me (and no disrespect to any members here) i would much prefer to experience and share these places with my family.

I suppose it depends on where you sit... If you're a skills provider you might be scratching your head if however you sell kit things might look a bit different...

I suspect if you surveyed the membership of BCUK for their reason for being 'here' you'd get a very diverse set of answers. Also is the general popularity of 'bushcraft' in the uk on the rise or is it declining??

Then add in factors such as commitment to actually go on a course, meeting costs etc and finally 'risk'. It's inherently less risky to spend your $$$$$$ on a bit of kit , going on a trip or couse is full of inherent risks, am I going to like the other course folk, will the instructors be any good, am I fit enough, will folk laugh at me ad infinitum. Spending $$$$$ on something inanimate you can research well is inherently less risky.

Again agree 100%

You pay £400 on a Stu Mitchell knife then you know exactly what your getting.

You spend £2000on a course you really have no idea on what if anything your going to learn.
Sure you can go by recommendations of others, but if different instructors are chosen?
Imagine paying £2000 for flights, kit and course run by RM or BG only to find it was changed at the last min and now you have Rupert giving the course.
Your experience will have been lowered by something not in your control.

Even if you do learn many things how many of those pass over when you return home?
Out of those how many will you practice at so your competent at them if ever needed?

With regards to the artic course, how many of the membership here wild camp in the snow?
I don't mean base camp 100m away from the car, but proper wild camp
What's your guess 50%, 25%?

Out of those how many do it on a regular basis?

My lads at work keep busting my balls to go on training courses.
Problem is though if i get them trained up on something they don't utilise on a regular basis then they just end up forgetting everything, so i end up having to send them on refresher courses.


Skills outweigh kit by a vast amount IMO.
But you can't teach skills, you can only learn how to get better at them by doing them on a regular basis.




Cheers
Mark