Never mind the military, DofE groups get through enough to keep at least a couple of manufacturers going
Kit thats come and gone ...
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Never mind the military, DofE groups get through enough to keep at least a couple of manufacturers going
Again stuck in my ways, but why stop using something that works so well, the foam matt of course!
love mine but it's a Dutch model and I'd say nearly 20mm thick so pretty comfy,
never tried a inflatable one and to be honest don't feel the need to!
im finding this thread is becoming my kit list
millbank bag
foam roll
zippo
metal cup
etc
love mine but it's a Dutch model and I'd say nearly 20mm thick so pretty comfy,
never tried a inflatable one and to be honest don't feel the need to!
im finding this thread is becoming my kit list
millbank bag
foam roll
zippo
metal cup
etc
It's interesting how quickly things go in and out of fashion too. I've just been browsing through some old issues of Bushcraft magazine and the adverts from 5 years ago are now quite a fun exercise in nostalgia.
Biggest problem here when talking "gear" is the varied activities the members here do, you have some that like to get out into the quieter areas by foot, often covering 10 miles plus on foot.
Then we have those that walk very little distance and only camp next to or very near their car/home, then there are those in the middle.
Add to that the folks that stick to the kit they've used the last 30 years no matter how heavy or uncomfortable it is and it's easily to see the difference in opinions.
Does a CCF mat work, yes
Is a inflatable mat more comfortable and easier to carry and lighter, yes
Does a Millbank water bag work (i.e, filter nasties out, nope
Is the modern equivalent lighter, cheaper and offer better filtration, yep
Does a Zippo give a light, yep
It also requires regular filling, leaks, stinks and is more expensive than a non leaking more reliable BIC lighter.
If folks prefer a CCF mat then it's their bones so their choice, if i was talking to a mate i'd lend him my Exped mat for a night and see what he thought.
Problem i see it is when folks start talking nonsense in very weak attempts to justify their choice of gear, e.g. seams bursting etc.
If someone wants to use old kit, good on em, if they haven't tried a modern equivalent then that's their choice.
Others may find the expense of modern kit off putting so make do with hand me downs or cheaper 2nd hand stuff, hey we've all done it no one is going to judge.
If a mate prefers red cars to green cars i'm not going to disagree or give him a hard time, that's his choice.
If he turns round and tries to tell me red is a better colour of car because of some made up or blown out of proportion nonsense then that's where i start to disagree.
I'd happily spend a night out with someone using a Millbank, CCF, Zippo or metal mug, you can't tell me that a modern water filter is not better or a inflatable mat isn't lighter, more comfortable and packs smaller though.
Let me put it this way.
A 911 turbo is a better car than a 70's 2CV, it's more comfortable, more efficient, safer and drives better.
Very few can afford a 911 turbo though and out of those that can few could stomach the running costs.
So although the 911 turbo is better, a 70's 2CV would be a better compromise for the money.
Won't be as comfortable, won't be as safe, won't be as much fun to drive, won't be as efficient BUT it'll still do the job of getting you from A to B (or half way to A before breaking down
).CCF mat, Zippo and a metal mug is the equivalent of a 2CV, does the job but are more compromised that the modern equivalents.
Millbank doesn't qualify as a 2CV as it doesn't do anything except slowly leak unclean water
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My old 2CV was actually great fun to drive but I wouldn't swap it for my current Subaru Forrester.
I use traditional kit because I enjoy it. I have lots of synthetic stuff and barely use it now, because I don't enjoy using it. Traditional adds to the experience for me. I also do go into very remote areas where you don't see a sole the whole time your there, sometimes by foot but most often by canoe.
Today we have choice, you can still go traditional if you want to, and you can go synthetic if you want to- they both work, America and Canada were mapped by people using natural materials, and many huge voyages have been undertaken by those in synthetics- they both work and in my opinion one is not more valuable than the other.
I'm fine with others personal choices and I completely understand why people use what they use- but this thread has sidetracked to some trying to convince others that their choices are wrong- and I don't think that's right, let others do what they will, it's their choice.
Just my humble opinion on the subject.
Today we have choice, you can still go traditional if you want to, and you can go synthetic if you want to- they both work, America and Canada were mapped by people using natural materials, and many huge voyages have been undertaken by those in synthetics- they both work and in my opinion one is not more valuable than the other.
I'm fine with others personal choices and I completely understand why people use what they use- but this thread has sidetracked to some trying to convince others that their choices are wrong- and I don't think that's right, let others do what they will, it's their choice.
Just my humble opinion on the subject
.
is it designed to, nope.
so does it work, yes
is it the best, probably not
im gutted i sepnt £30 on a metal cup now. will have to get a wooden one
Yeah, I think the thread got sidetracked into what gear is better rather than what gear will disappear in the near future.
Closed cell foam pads are out. The assertion that they are not reliable or that they are not good for long expeditions or people who spend a lot of time in the woods, is absurd. Inflatable mats are used these days everywhere, including in the military. The newer models offer as much insulation as a standard closed cell foam pad, even when completely deflated.
Another five years, and I think they will be hard to find, and rarely seen in the woods.
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Closed cell foam pads are out. The assertion that they are not reliable or that they are not good for long expeditions or people who spend a lot of time in the woods, is absurd. Inflatable mats are used these days everywhere, including in the military. The newer models offer as much insulation as a standard closed cell foam pad, even when completely deflated.
Another five years, and I think they will be hard to find, and rarely seen in the woods.
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I use traditional kit because I enjoy it. I have lots of synthetic stuff and barely use it now, because I don't enjoy using it. Traditional adds to the experience for me. I also do go into very remote areas where you don't see a sole the whole time your there, sometimes by foot but most often by canoe.
Today we have choice, you can still go traditional if you want to, and you can go synthetic if you want to- they both work, America and Canada were mapped by people using natural materials, and many huge voyages have been undertaken by those in synthetics- they both work and in my opinion one is not more valuable than the other.
I'm fine with others personal choices and I completely understand why people use what they use- but this thread has sidetracked to some trying to convince others that their choices are wrong- and I don't think that's right, let others do what they will, it's their choice.
Just my humble opinion on the subject
I both understand and respect your choices.
Your choices are made by what you prefer for doing the activities that you do.
As i say where i start disagreeing is when folks start giving incorrect or exaggerated justifications for their choices, it's not like they're needed either a simple "because i prefer it" is perfectly understandable.
It's a bag that leaks unclean, unsafe water, struggling to see what actually works about it.
I guess if the requirement was "to leak unsafe drinking water" then i'd have to agree it does do that.
My point is, when you can buy a filter and water bladder for around the same money, that filters water to a guaranteed safe level (for the UK at least) that is also lighter and faster, PLUS has the ability to stem the flow if you don't need any more water rather than leak all over the campsite floor till it's empty like some incontinent dog, it's a bite your nose off to spite your face kinda thing.
Again if you prefer it then that's 100% your choice, but you can't convince folks it's in any way shape or form better than a modern water filtering system, so by definition classifies as "Kit thats come and gone ..."
Even the Army a institution not known for accepting change at anything more than a continental drift speed has given up on them in favour of more modern, better solutions.
As ive already said i use predominantly sawyer filters. I will not rely on a sawyer system or any other filter at -20 as they break and are then useless. Its about need for me. I seldom need a milbank but sometimes some clean (but not pathogen free) water is all i need to boil. You have a closed mind to lightweight kit, thats fine many do but i use both old and new, light and heavy.
ill say no more as i dont want to derail further
ill accept they are no longer in fashion though
You get the picture though, frontiersman and trade routes, the sailing of the Atlantic to discover it.
You get the picture though, frontiersman and trade routes, the sailing of the Atlantic to discover it.
I get the picture, yes. But your analogy is still flawed. LOL. The early explorers using traditional gear were mostly wrong. The maps they drew were inaccurate and Columbus believed he'd reached Asia.
Ah see that's were we differ- it's the methods and equiptment they used that interests me, the fact that they achieved what they did, even if inaccurate, with what they had amazes me and it's where my interest lies
.
Ah see that's were we differ- it's the methods and equiptment they used that interests me, the fact that they achieved what they did, even if inaccurate, with what they had amazes me and it's where my interest lies
I'm not sure we really disagree TBH. Just describing it differently.
Not exactly on topic, but just curious: where do people find liquid water at -20 to use in a Milbank bag? How do you keep the bag from freezing?
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well clearly it doesnt start as liquid
it has to be melted and put through then boiled. my point is you would have to do the same with a sawyer or other system and then the same question applies, how do you stop your bag or filter freezing. If the millbank freezes it will work next time you pour liquid into it. Your sawyer will be bolaxed I love my sawyer, thirst aid bag etc but its not the be all and end all but i guess it has come and is largely gone. I would point out i do not own a personal milbank. Mine is the group version which holds around a gallon. It will process a lot of water very quickly
Reality is a bitch...
Search for thermarest delamination, there are hundreds of pictures and forum threads about the subject.
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