Kelp, snails and shellfish?

[torjusg]

Although we are true mountain people today, I suspect that in the stone age people here used to migrate between the sea (summer presumably) and the forests and mountains (autumn and winter).

Opposite of what one might think, the pine, spruce and birch forests of the interior is a very harsh place in the summer. Even fishing is hard because the light reveals the nets and makes the fish be slow at feeding. The reindeer is scattered and the elk is hiding because of the calves. There is even very little to forage. Only sedges and very small roots.

The coast on the other hand offers shellfish, fish, seals, kelp and the more fertile soils offer for instance burdock and wild onions. Also lots of breeding seabirds for eggs and meat and the salmon are in the lower parts of the river.

So my questions are (many ):
When are the seals most landbound?
Anywhere I can find out what seaweeds are edible?
How is the sea fishing in summertime?
Are all shellfish edible?
Are the shellfish safe to eat in summer, I have heard about poison or something?
What about snails?
Are all crabs edible?
When are the acorns ripe?

 

[sam_acw]

It is certainly easier to find food coastally than in the woods.
I have read that it was the migration of people to coastal areas that provided the necessary protien "spike" in the diet to enable bigger brained homonids to evolve.
I've also seen somewhere about the general spread of mesolithic sites being within travelling distance of the coast. I think it was in Britain BC by Francis Prior but that book is 1500km away at my parents house so I can't check....

 

[Toddy]

Certainly in the UK we find the earliest (post last ice age) sites where they were within easy reach of the sea, and when the Neolithic and the first farmers developed it is generally the open soils of riversides and machair that were used.

Seaweeds are all edible.
Shellfish are safe to eat in any month with an R in it.
Seals are kind of land bound only when they are moulting, June and July, but when they have to come ashore to pup too October/ November or Feb to April depending on species) is a vulnerable time for them.
Snails are edible but best to purge them first.
Crabs........I don't think there are any poisonous ones in Europe.........anybody know??
All eggs are edible though.
Acorns are ripe here late August onwards.

l think some of this info is kind of region specific.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[torjusg]

Thanks a lot toddy!

When I meant snails I meant the ones in the sea? Do they need purging too?

Looks like summer is a time of abundance in the coast. Going inland for the big game with their hides and meat may have been more of a chore for the men. As long as the population density was low, keeping the women down by the sea may have been a safer strategy. Or maybe dropping them off somewhere in the interior forests, by a big fishing lake or something and not bring them all the way to the reindeer hunting grounds.

Maybe the latter strategy would have been the most likely, since the women could be brought in to help with the butchering in the event of a great reindeer kill.

 

[sam_acw]

I'd imagine that animals would be at their most nutritious/benenficial and larger after growing and eating throughout the summer and autumn.
What about things like the rut - does this affect reindeers' condition?
Are there any migrations to take advantage of - be it shoaling of mackarel, birds, salmon or sturgeon?

 

[torjusg]

I'd imagine that animals would be at their most nutritious/benenficial and larger after growing and eating throughout the summer and autumn.
What about things like the rut - does this affect reindeers' condition?
Are there any migrations to take advantage of - be it shoaling of mackarel, birds, salmon or sturgeon?

It would always be advantageous for you to hunt the animals at their prime. Most (if not all) animals are at their leanest in spring. The problem is that you have to eat in the spring too...

The rut does very much affect the reindeer's condition, so males would be most advantageous to hunt in the early autumn, while females will be in fairly good shape throughout the winter. But then again, males are more easily lured (calls, scents etc...) so the tradeoff may often be worth it.

I have tried to map the area on the basis of natural resources. There are seals on the coast. Shoals of mackarel and herring (seasons?). Lots of nesting seabirds, especially on the coast, but also in some of the bigger inland lakes. Salmon and sea trout in the lower parts of the river. Eels too. Unfortunately, no sturgeon, though there may have been in the stone age.

A suggestion of seasonal routine:

Spring (forests, progressively lower):
Hunting capercaillie and black grouse.
Prime season for beaver trapping.
Fishing whitefish.
The first ducks and swans.
Fishing spawning pike.
Eels???

Summer (coast and estuaries):
Mackarel???
Foraged seafood in general.
Bird eggs and seabirds.
Molting swans, geese and ducks.
Gathering salmon in the estuaries.

Autumn (forests, progressively higher):
Running salmon.
Acorns and beech nuts?
Berries and fungi.
Trapping black grouse and capercaillie.
Spawning trout and whitefish.
Reindeer drives.

Winter (upper edge of forests, mountains)
Sporadic hunting and trapping of elk and reindeer.
Trapping of fur game.
Trapping ptarmigan and hares.
Hunting hibernating bears.
Fishing through the ice with nets (just to even out the spaces between big killings).

Elk, red deer and roe deer are staple species in most of the locations. Wild boar in the lowland (at least in earlier times, and probably in the near future). Of course, wild plants are gathered whenever found. Reed mace and burdock could potentially be important near the coast.

Missed opportunites:
- Herring spawn?
- Breeding seals

Thought I'd round off this rather long post with the picture of a capercaillie my brother shot this autumn. It has been a good season for him so far. 2 capercaillie, 1 black grouse, 5 ducks (I think), several ptarmigan, 1 hare, 1 hazel grouse (or was that last year?) and several wood cocks.

 

[Justin Time]

Just been rereading a book called Sea Room by Adam Nicholson which is about the Shiant Isles which he owns. these are part of the Outer Hebrides so I guess somewhat similar to your coast Torus. Also lots of evidence of Viking habitation on the isles. Anyway he includes a table of edibility of sea bird eggs from some research done in the 1950's. scale ranged from 10.0 for ideal to 2.0 for repulsive and inedible.

9.0 Very Good
8.3 Lesser Black Backed Gull
8.2 Kittiwake
8.0 Good
7.9 Herring Gull
7.8 Razorbill
7.7 Fulmar, Great Black Blacked Gull, Guillemot
7.2 Great Skua
7.0 Barely perceptible off flavour
6.6 Puffin
6.0 Definite off flavour
6.0 Common Eider
5.4 Gannet
5.0 Unpleasant
4.4 Shag
4.0 Off
He also mentions that the meat from Shag and Puffin reportedly made good eating. Gannet of course is still eaten by some families.
I'm pretty sure that these food sources would not have been ignored.

 

[Toddy]

Excellent info Justintime :You_Rock_

When I meant snails I meant the ones in the sea? Do they need purging too?

Sorry torjusg, I don't know. I do know that snails and slugs are best purged so that you know that there's nothing left in their guts that might make them toxic. How to purge sea snails?? I suppose they could be transported to somewhere that was guaranteed *clean* until they'd excreted anything dubious

There has to be someone on the forum who regularly forages from the seashores, though

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tengu]

Certainly there have been societies which did this. I think the Ainu of Japan did.

And there have been places where the land people and sea people were of different and often hostile tribes. (Ona and Yarghan of Tiera del Fueogo, for example.)

what were the relationship between the land and sea saami?

(of course it may have been more fluid in prehistoric times before the Saami started this reindeer business...)

 

[Ketchup]

So my questions are (many ):
When are the seals most landbound?
Anywhere I can find out what seaweeds are edible?
How is the sea fishing in summertime?
Are all shellfish edible?
Are the shellfish safe to eat in summer, I have heard about poison or something?
What about snails?
Are all crabs edible?
When are the acorns ripe?

Large seaweeds are edible, but generally speaking not very palatable and often full of indigestible sugars (sacharine e.g. comes from laminaria seaweed: sweet but undigestible: an L-sugar). A tasty exception is laver (Ulva lactuca) which everyone knows from sushi (the green "paper" wrap). seaweeds can be a good source of gels for making puddings (agar agar and Irish moss)

In summertime, fishing can be good, depending where you are. Mackerels run in summer in the Norht sea e.g.

Spring and autumn are the best times for seafood. Theya are well fed and more plentyfull. In the months "without R" shellfish are spawning and not very palatable (in Western Europe, that is). But they are safe food, as long as there are no toxic algal blooms !!!! Before collecting sea snails, limpets, mussels, oysters, you should check with the authorities as there is no "natural" indicator for toxicity.

Crabs, shrimp, lobsters are generaly fine, only during heavy toxic bloom tides should they be avoided.

 

[torjusg]

Thank you all.

Things may have varied greatly from age to age too.

Tengu

I thinkt the sea and reindeer Saami used to be the same people more or less, before they started with the large scale herding. But the Saami society was very complex and divided into siidas. Each siida had a council of elders that handed out temporary rights to families in order to manage the land in a responsible way.

The saami were pasifists in general.

The taxation of the Saami by surrounding civilisations contributed to the destruction of this stable system and introduction of large scale reindeer herding. Wild reindeer just couldn't provide enough skins for the tax collectors.

 

[stuart f]

Seaweeds are all edible.

Hi all,not all seaweeds are edible,there are sea sorrels Desmarestia aculeata,ligulate and viridis which contain sulphuric acid and consumed in sufficient quantities cause upset stomach.

Sorry to point this out but i thought that it may have some relevance to this thread.

 

[Toddy]

I didn't know that Stuart; thank you
So they're like the oxalis then? eat a little and then no more?
Need to see if I can find some illustrations.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Toddy]

Does anyone have good on-line links to clear photos of seaweeds and algae?
My books only show *some* seaweeds.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[dommyracer]

Shellfish are safe to eat in any month with an R in it.

Regarding this, I guess it works as a general rule, but I have eaten limpets harvested in months containing no 'r' and they seemed fine.

AFAIK, Shellfish that are grazers (eg gastropods like limpets, winkles) are generally safer than bivalve filter feeders (mussels, scallops, oysters), because they don't concentrate toxins that may be present in the water..

The Coast is truly an abundant source of food, with the added advantage that the foods found there are relatively easy to collect in comparison for the amount of effort.....

 

[Ketchup]

The 'R' in the month is not so important. This tradition came about in Renaissance France when they transported oysters over long distances from Brittany to Paris by barge or horsecart without cooling. The months without R, are the hot months and the cargo risked to spoil before reaching the capital, causing a risk for the consumer.

But the warmer months are also spawning months, giving "milky" oysters. Some people like them, but it's an acquired taste.

Mussels do not follow the 'R' scheme at all. In the netherlands e.g. Zeeland mussels are plump from july till march; They start to spawn in april and are 'spent' (tasting bitter and metallic)from then on till july again. (this may be different in your area)

The risk for toxic algal blooms is highest in spring an autumn (end of the R months = April and beginning of autumn in September). Because of the temperature changes, the coastal waters mix vertically during that period, bringing nutrient rich water to the surface making it possible for algae to multiply fast. Seafood grows and fattens strongly during these months. But sometimes toxic algae will grow so fast that they spoil the season.

 

[torjusg]

Thank you ketchup! :You_Rock_

Does the poisoning follow any particular weather pattern, so it is identifiable by primitive means?

Anyway of seeing it in the sea or on the shells?

 

[Ketchup]

Thank you ketchup! :You_Rock_

Does the poisoning follow any particular weather pattern, so it is identifiable by primitive means?

Anyway of seeing it in the sea or on the shells?

No weather patterns exept long term heat spells e.g. It can depend from bay to bay or, in your case, Fjord to Fjord. BTW: Norway is reputed for its toxic blooms

NO! There's no simple giveaway in the sea or the shells. Professional authorities monitor the plankton weekly for known toxic algae. When they are on the rise, a warning is given. Seafood toxins themselves are so powerfull they are hard to detect even chemically. They are dangerous at very low concentration. biotoxins are usually measured by "bio-assay": feeding the seafood to mice or, strange as it seems, mosquitoes (don't know how that works in practice )

 

[Toddy]

Lots of good, helpful information, cheers people :You_Rock_

I hate misleading folks but I've finding it difficult to get hard information on seaweeds that *aren't* edible, lots of hearsay and dodgy statements


However,
This link is to a website that give clear description of seaweeds and algae.

http://www.algaebase.org/

This page is the link to the particular species in Stuart's message.
http://www.algaebase.org/speciesdet...ts&-session=abv3:5228298B1b19e16F54pumhBD71F3


The following link is for a (theroretically) commercial site that seems to be involved in the trading of useful sea vegetables but gives lots of information on names, uses, sites, etc.,

http://www.surialink.com/HANDBOOK/INDEX.ASP

This is the relevant page for the ones that StuartF mentioned.

http://www.surialink.com/HANDBOOK/Genera/browns/Desmarestia/Desmarestia.htm


Who do we know who is a real seaweed buff?
How about a new thread on seaplants and their uses?

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Ketchup]

On a more culinary note.

on the Breton island of Ouessant (Ushant, for the Pommies), there is since twenty years or so a commercial seaweed farm:

look at http://www.ouessant.com/edible-seaweeds.htm