Keeping your knife sharp?

[gorilla]

i'm quite enjoying all this antler-bashing, and i for one would like to see the contest! i have used steels as a kitchen worker and they give a great edge very quick, but i also enjoy the cathartic practice of sharpening my bushy knives for half an hour.
however, i know sufficiently little about the subject to want to see the challenge taken up.
robin wood did it with man vs machine bowl-turning - this could turn into a cracking series of 'vs' encounters - fire drill vs bow etc

 

[Bernie Garland]

i'm quite enjoying all this antler-bashing, and i for oldne would like to see the contest! i have used steels as a kitchen worker and they give a great edge very quick, but i also enjoy the cathartic practice of sharpening my bushy knives for half an hour.
however, i know sufficiently little about the subject to want to see the challenge taken up.
robin wood did it with man vs machine bowl-turning - this could turn into a cracking series of 'vs' encounters - fire drill vs bow etc

the contest will always be open with me, anyone who can sharpen and hold an edge on a knife with a bit of leather, take me up on the challenge. free knife and costs, any takers?

 

[mr dazzler]

Well I for one have no need to get into a contest to prove anything Bernie. You have admitted (in not so many word's) that your method is limited, it wont give a wood-burnishing quality edge. And when me and others asked how it was done (with a steel) you turned strangeley reticent, go and ask a butcher? I thought you were one? Theres plenty of info available about stropping an edge, I never have seen how a steel should be used, or even heard of it being used outside the butcher or chef inustry until you mentioned it, I thought that's intriguing I wonder how its done. Maybe its a big trade secret, in which case mr dewhirst would tell be to sling my hook if I were to ask in his shop? You siad to begin with you could do any edge with a steel, but aparently now not razors that barber's use?? Once an axe or knife has been done with a diamond file it will cut ok, but literally a few second's with a strop will elevate the qality of the edge dramatically. No one has sudgested that you use stropping to do the main part of creating an edge (ie after its been dinged, dented, grit blunted etc after some hard work) any more than you would do the man part of felling a tree with an opinel knife-it could be done but would take a lot longer. Stropping (as I understand it any way) is a fine finishing of an edge for a higher than "good enough" quality of cut, and a fast and efficient way to mainytan it. The way I see it, the finish left on the wood (whichas I said before IS an important factor in my work) relates to the finish of the steel edge-if its still rough with file mark's, there will be rough scratch mark's on the wood, if its smooth and polished (so you can see your face), you get a smooth polished finish on the wood. Not only that the blade actually glides as easy as can be. You know that, the smooth flat polished surface on the back of a plane iron is what determines how sharp it can be got, not the bevel on the front.
Any way I'm repeating myself now, I've made my point. The hundred's and thousand's of folk's who strop cant all be wrong
Cheeras Jonathan .

 

[Owen Bush]

I think a point is being missed here .
30 seconds? you make bush craft knives for people who enjoy there bushcraft ,and probably enjoy there sharpening as a pleasurable leasure activity ?
there is nothing wrong with spending 2 minutes or even a leasurly 15 minutes making your beloved knife wood polishingly sharp .

 

[John Fenna]

I do it all!
Steel for a quik edge on my whittlin knives in my workshop, endless stropping on wet and dtry and leather for my bushy knives.....
All my knives and axes are tested for sharpness either by taking hairs off my arm or by holding a sheet of newspaper up by the centre fold and slicing a corner off.
If it wont do that (stel or strop) the blade needs work
As for slicing through free hanging rope - I never need to do that......

 

[Shewie]

i`m a great fan of Red`s £5 sharpening kit and find the whole process very satisfying from making the boards to doing the sharpening bit. I will treat myself to some decent stones one day especially as I`ve got a few new sharpies coming to me over the next few weeks.

As for a steel, my father-in-law is a retired butcher of 50 years and has promised to show me the correct technique when they come over for Chrimbo. He puts a great edge on all our knives when he comes round but I`ve never seen him actually do it, I`ll be having a go and seeing how I like it I think.


Rich

 

[Bernie Garland]

Well I for one have no need to get into a contest to prove anything Bernie. You have admitted (in not so many word's) that your method is limited, it wont give a wood-burnishing quality edge. And when me and others asked how it was done (with a steel) you turned strangeley reticent, go and ask a butcher? I thought you were one? Theres plenty of info available about stropping an edge, I never have seen how a steel should be used, or even heard of it being used outside the butcher or chef inustry until you mentioned it, I thought that's intriguing I wonder how its done. Maybe its a big trade secret, in which case mr dewhirst would tell be to sling my hook if I were to ask in his shop? You siad to begin with you could do any edge with a steel, but aparently now not razors that barber's use?? Once an axe or knife has been done with a diamond file it will cut ok, but literally a few second's with a strop will elevate the qality of the edge dramatically. No one has sudgested that you use stropping to do the main part of creating an edge (ie after its been dinged, dented, grit blunted etc after some hard work) any more than you would do the man part of felling a tree with an opinel knife-it could be done but would take a lot longer. Stropping (as I understand it any way) is a fine finishing of an edge for a higher than "good enough" quality of cut, and a fast and efficient way to mainytan it. The way I see it, the finish left on the wood (whichas I said before IS an important factor in my work) relates to the finish of the steel edge-if its still rough with file mark's, there will be rough scratch mark's on the wood, if its smooth and polished (so you can see your face), you get a smooth polished finish on the wood. Not only that the blade actually glides as easy as can be. You know that, the smooth flat polished surface on the back of a plane iron is what determines how sharp it can be got, not the bevel on the front.
Any way I'm repeating myself now, I've made my point. The hundred's and thousand's of folk's who strop cant all be wrong
Cheeras Jonathan .

hi jonathan
just to give you a bit of history about myself,im 52 and a time served carpenter joiner by trade, having served a 4 year apprenticeship from 1971 till 1975,so i do know how to sharpen any woodworking tools, including sharpening and setting handsaws,i also spent 3 years as a slaughter man, and spent 6 years driving a 50 ton excavator on major muck shifting operations in the uk,also 3 years as a tattoo artist google my name to see my work i also served for 5 years in the ta,i now am a full time knife maker and have been for just over 2years,i am the sort of person that gets fed up with a certain job easily,what ever job i do, i want to be at the top of the tree and when i get there i move to another challenge
being a knife maker you have to know how to put an edge on a knife,if you dident you wouldn't sell any knives,so i have researched every method .i have purchased every bit of kit possible to see what's best, i even have a leather power strop with paste that fits on my polishing machine and to be honest its not worth a carrot,the steel is as tried and tested proven method for knives,is used all the time by workers in the meat trade and catering, if your method was better don't you think they would all be using it,as for your mirror polish on wood i think you should be using a thumb scrape a 2 inch by 1 1/2 piece of saw blade filed on one edge to produce a burr, and its the burr that gives the mirror finish. as for a barbers cut throat that has to be stropped due to the thickness of the steel,theres no trade secrets, and i invite any members of this forum or any other forum to come round have a cup of tea and i'll show you how i get and edge,to many knifeowners are being led up the wrong path at the end of the day all you require is a shaving sharp knife for the job in hand, if you want a knife for party tricks go down the waterstone route
bernie

 

[falcon]

Don't you end up with a slight secondary bevel by using as steel..? or maybe that's down to lack of technique on my part. If so, it might not be quite what people with a scandi grind prefer....

 

[Bernie Garland]

Don't you end up with a slight secondary bevel by using as steel..? or maybe that's down to lack of technique on my part. If so, it might not be quite what people with a scandi grind prefer....

if you take a close look 99 % of makers scandi grind knives, there's a slight secondary bevel. as the bevel dosent look nice when selling with sharpening marks, when they have mirror polished grinds they have been power stropped,and power stropping on a leather wheel will make the grind slightly concave,so not a true scandi grind
bernie

 

[steve a]

John Juranitch in his book Razor Edge book of sharpening advocates the use of steels to maintain the edge in between sharpening, his company produce a number of steels which includes a pocket one that is small enough to be taken into the field and it works very well.His company have surplied sharpening systems and services to the meat packing business in the US for years.
http://www.razoredgesystems.com/

No connection etc etc

 

[mr dazzler]

Hi bernie,
I dont want a knife egde for party trick's, just to get a best as possible spontaneous finish on the wood NO SANDING i hate sanding it makes my throat bleed in no time Why use 2 different tool's (knife and then a scraper) if you can get a fine finish just off your knife blade?
I do sometimes use a scraper, I make them from old greaves or disston steel, I got a thick heavy one off a bandsaw sharpening bloke (3 inch band saw steel). I use them to do wild grains eg laminated work top's, and they can work well to get you out of a problem area. But even with them I like to do the face's and edge on a fine stone then form the hook's, a filed only edge isnt as good. I could use them on EG spoon's, chair legs/spindle's etc, but I actually like the facet tool marks you get from the draw knife/spokeshve etc and want them to be as smooth and refined as possible. I am unconventional but so what it sounds like you are as well
Glad to hear theres another saw filer on the forum. What file's do you use (if you still do any)? Theres a traditional very long established ironmonger near by me that has boxes of old nicholson 3 square's . Auriou (french rasp makers for about 160 year's?) went under recently, is there any one as makes files now in shefield? I dont like indian or chinease "files". I use eclipse pliar's.
Cheers Jonathan

 

[Bernie Garland]

Hi bernie,
I dont want a knife egde for party trick's, just to get a best as possible spontaneous finish on the wood NO SANDING i hate sanding it makes my throat bleed in no time Why use 2 different tool's (knife and then a scraper) if you can get a fine finish just off your knife blade?
I do sometimes use a scraper, I make them from old greaves or disston steel, I got a thick heavy one off a bandsaw sharpening bloke (3 inch band saw steel). I use them to do wild grains eg laminated work top's, and they can work well to get you out of a problem area. But even with them I like to do the face's and edge on a fine stone then form the hook's, a filed only edge isnt as good. I could use them on EG spoon's, chair legs/spindle's etc, but I actually like the facet tool marks you get from the draw knife/spokeshve etc and want them to be as smooth and refined as possible. I am unconventional but so what it sounds like you are as well
Glad to hear theres another saw filer on the forum. What file's do you use (if you still do any)? Theres a traditional very long established ironmonger near by me that has boxes of old nicholson 3 square's . Auriou (french rasp makers for about 160 year's?) went under recently, is there any one as makes files now in shefield? I dont like indian or chinease "files". I use eclipse pliar's.
Cheers Jonathan

i'm glad we can talk the same language jonathan, i've not sharpened a saw now for perhaps 15 years but know i still could, i also use an eclipse saw tooth set and still have it and my saw sharpening stool,but with the disposable saws available now have no need to sharpen, at the time the handsaws i used where henry disston usa not canada and i still have, them my favourite is a 6 teeth to the inch rip saw which i used for cut and pitch traditional roofing.and if ever a tricky roof comes up around here I'm always asked to sort it,as it was a field i enjoyed,but the old ways are hard work with hand tools why i got out the game,and tried other jobs in life,if your ever up this way and fancy a cup of tea and a chat and swap some tips your more than welcome.
all the best
bernie

 

[mr dazzler]

Hi bernie, thanks for your kind offer, if ever I'm in derby I'll warn you first, t'would be nice to have a natter
The only disposable saw I could get on with were the bahco profcut. I remember the first hardpoint saw I saw in about 1967 or 8, my Dad was so proud of it I have a jet cut which I use only for trimming handle ends on axe's and such, not bothered if the teeth scratch against the steel To my mind they dont have any set and are hard to use. My best saw's are very old straight/nibbed disstons, and very old S&J which I bought cheap off an eccentric old collector for 40 pence each, they were mostly in a state. I did them with the electrolysis tank and set and sharpened them, sold some for £30-£32. I kept some good ones though enough to last me and my boy's I expect, a large number of them went to a tool charity that helps people over seas to start up in trade's. I used the rip today to cut slots for wedges in chair leg's.
As far as cut roof's go, why arent they still done nowadays except as special's By the time you ordered some trusses you could of bought some 6x2 and 10 x2 's etc and got it all cut and nailed and covered. The few times I've set out and cut rafters, they fit perfect first time evry time, nowt like the satisfaction of them just dropping into place, no having to belt em in or saw bit's off . I just drew them full size rod on ply to get the plumb and seat. It amazes me that blokes will do it by trial and error and waste timber in the process? What method do you use? Do you get the setting out from a rafter square?
PS the sandvik files arent too bad, even the portugese snadvik ones you can get 2 or 3 good sharpening's out of them. God knows what will happen when they and nicholson's stop making file's.

 

[gorilla]

my little bro lives in derby - i'd love a sharpening lesson next time i'm down that way

 

[Bernie Garland]

my little bro lives in derby - i'd love a sharpening lesson next time i'm down that way

no probs your more than welcome

 

[MelaniePalmero]

Hi James_m246! I've never experienced using stones but steeling works great. This sharpening tip video from Chef Phil might help. Enjoy!