Jacket material- more breathability

[mutineer]

Hi all,
I am getting my knickers in a twist over getting a jacket.
Basically can anybody recommend a durable outdoor jacket material that is more breathable?

If I use it hill walking I find gore tex can be too clammy in anything but colder weathers.

I want a jacket that I can use for bushcraft as well as hillwalking? I am ex army and so I am used to a cotton smock which goes over the top of everything and yet can still be used for higher intensities by removing under layers.

I understand that nothing fully waterproof is fully breathable and have researched ventile, G1000 etc. I am happy that something like ventile isn't 100% waterproof but I would be happy with this for the breathability. I would use paclite goretex or pertex underneath if the weather was really that bad. The way I see it, there are shades of impermeability and it is mostly a case of finding the right balance of stopping water come in and allowing it to get out. Fabrics like to think they have a special method of stopping more come in and letting more out but I am sceptical that any fabric allows for such a difference and it seams to me that ventile is the best bet.

It seems that the modern coats are all 2 layer if one wants a respectable amount of durability as well as weather proof. There are quite a few jackets with a tough outer like ripstop and a sewn in liner. I like the idea of a robust windproof outer with the option of a separate liner jacket, but if the integral liners are good enough then a 2 layer jacket would be useful. But I would still want to be on the breathable end of the spectrum. IE- Ventile lined with pertex.

Any way, how do people find these 2 layer jackets for higher intensities? Does a second layer of ventile compromise the breathability?

I could rant more but hopefully this will start the discussion enough!

All answers very welcome
Nick

 

[Clouston98]

I have the fjallraven Greenland pro trousers which are g100. I really like the material especially as it is adaptable with the Greenland wax. The fabric is very tough and won't rip but also allows good breathability. I think the fabric would be great in a jacket but they are expensive. As for the jackets with inners and outers I have a plain black berghaus one and it is great. It doesn't have any fancy features it is just a great waterproof jacket with a nice removable fleece liner at a good price. The model I have is an AQ2.

Good luck finding one you like. I do suggest that you try them out in a shop to make sure you like them because everybody is different.

 

[Shewie]

I use a Country Innovation Kestrel smock in the cooler months, a single layer ventile with a windproof and waterproof lining sewn in.

I find it too warm for most of the year, especially if I'm active. It's fine for just bimbling around the woods or wearing around camp but a bit warm for much else.

 

[mutineer]

OK, so I am the first one to reply to my own thread.
I have been trolling through even more archives of the great ventile debate.

I am pretty certain on the following points:
1- A softshell/ windproof/ robust outer smock with pockets to suit is basically what I want. I have always found this to be the 'best fit' for the british weather with intense activities. If it really rains then a paclite nylon or goretex underneath will do the business. The system is more modular and flexible.

2- I don't believe most of the claims on breathability vs water repellency. It is simply a case of permeability (both ways) as a continuum. Do you want full impermeability (rubber) or full leakage (tea bag). I think goretex is too much like rubber and have found pertex to be a better semi permeable softshell for higher intensities. So I guess I am looking for a tougher version of pertex. That is why I like ventile.

3- I don't believe any waterproof garment still breathes. But with ventile, more impermeable when wet, more breathable when dry. I think from my research that this makes it better than goretex which is impermeable when wet, impermeable when dry. Ventile works with you baby! Like wool.

4- I still like goretex, it is a very waterproof fabric giving some breathability for really hard rain. But, most weather isn't THAT wet and I do need MORE breathability. In fact, I have spent many days on very wet hills where I preffered the breathability because I was working hard. It takes a lot of soaking through before the water ingress actually gets you cold. After all, your body is deliberately pushing out water to cool you down. Collecting some for free is just a natural working balance in the hill. So is the ballance single layer ventile, double layer ventile, ripstop with a lining...

 

[mutineer]

Thanks chaps,

So from what Shewie said, it seems that a lined jacket is not what I am looking for (too hot). Perhaps single ventile.

Clouston. Trying on in a shop is the big problem. Any suggestions anyone?

 

[blacktimberwolf]

But I would still want to be on the breathable end of the spectrum. IE- Ventile lined with pertex.

Can't really help you with which fabrics are the best as I've never found any 'waterproof' material comfortable in warmer weather or heavy walking but I can tell you that mixing fabrics, such as wearing gortex/pertex under another so called waterproof/breathable fabric such as ventile is not a good idea. These materials are designed to be the outer layer & if you block their 'breathable' properties by covering them up you'll just get soggy.

 

[mutineer]

Can't really help you with which fabrics are the best as I've never found any 'waterproof' material comfortable in warmer weather or heavy walking but I can tell you that mixing fabrics, such as wearing gortex/pertex under another so called waterproof/breathable fabric such as ventile is not a good idea. These materials are designed to be the outer layer & if you block their 'breathable' properties by covering them up you'll just get soggy.

So, what doyou think of the jackets with a tough outer and a sewn in technical liner. Is wearing a ripstop jacket with a goretex jkt underneath not the same as wearing the arktis smock which is ripstop outer with a liner.

 

[blacktimberwolf]

So, what doyou think of the jackets with a tough outer and a sewn in technical liner. Is wearing a ripstop jacket with a goretex jkt underneath not the same as wearing the arktis smock which is ripstop outer with a liner.

Can't see why anyone would wear a ripstop jacket over a goretex one ............I don't know the slightest thing about Arktis smocks (or smocks in general come to that) as I've had a sheltered life

 

[Uilleachan]

I've a hilltrek double ventile jacket, the one "without" the slash mid pockets (thats an invitation for a slash pocket full of water). Which is great, doesn't melt when stood next to a fire and it's not too warm if you layer you under garments and remove accordingly. I feel protected in this jacket which I don't in my gortex jacket. That said up the hill in winter it's the gortex jacket I use.

What I really want is a ventile version of my gortex jacket, thats a really well thought out piece of kit in the long (read old) style, when I get a bit of cash together thats what I'm going to have hilltrek make me.

So a vote for ventile on ventile here..

 

[mrcharly]

*good* goretex is different from the cheap stuff. Not in the material so much (that is controlled by Gore), but in the design. So a good goretex jacket designed for high exercise levels will allow you to vent the jacket, letting out some of that air that is full of sweat.

Nothing will prevent you from getting a sweaty damp back if you are humping a heavy rucksack.

I like my montane pertex and fleece jacket. It has vents just where you need them, is very 'soft' to wear (doesn't impede movement). Yeah, I get sweaty in it - it is warm - but keep it zipped up and the heat of exertion drives the damp out and I stay warm.

 

[StuMsg]

Why not get a highly breathable water resistant softshell and a waterproof shell jacket?

If your doing high activity use the softshell. My Lowe Alpine keeps me dry in heavy rain when I'm exercising hard enough.

If your standing around in the rain use the hardshell. A dedicated waterproof won't wet through unlike a mixed fabric.

If your standing around in the cold and rain use both, waterproof on the outside. Warm and dry.

If your walking in winter conditions use both. Warm and dry, can cut down to just the waterproof if needed.

2 layers gives you 3 possibilities. 1 combined layer gives you 1 possibility.

Stu

 

[Uilleachan]

Your right, I don't think there's a one material for every situation solution. I'll often go out in heavy downpours in PVC oilskin and wellies, not ideal for sweaty exercise but fine for standing around, and 100% water proof. As I said above it's ventile for me.

 

[Chris the Cat]

Wet in the woods, Ventile over wool for me.
Exposed hills Gortex.
There is no 'one' jacket imho.

Best of luck.

Chris.

 

[Nice65]

My single layer Keela gets more use than any other coat I have. Internal zips to add a cheapish Regatta fleece, much useful pocket room, well designed, removable hood, great customer service.

Price seems to have leapt up a bit though, think I paid around £150 for mine.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

You get wet while exercising then put dry clothes and waterproofs on when you stop.

 

[Robbi]

get a decent tweed jacket

 

[spoony]

Remember you NEED to wear the correct clothing under a goretex or event jacket. High wicking tech tops cotton t shirts are a no no.
the is a new verson of goretex , called gore pro i think, event is good, i have a montane pertex shield plus, very thin light weight and supposed to be more breathable than goretex. when you look at the lastest gore to the early gore, there are miles apart, plus you need to spend a bit more, ifnyou like goretex, go to a good outdoor shop and look at the different materials,

 

[Shovel]

With a jacket, try to get something with a mesh lining, it prevents the material from sticking to your skin. As for breathability, nothing is both fully waterproof and breathable, which is why a full front zipper, and pit zips are a must. Goretex and Event will do better than other materials though.

 

[tamoko]

some interesting discussion on backpackinglight:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...ums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=81441

 

[mutineer]

Why not get a highly breathable water resistant softshell and a waterproof shell jacket?

If your doing high activity use the softshell. My Lowe Alpine keeps me dry in heavy rain when I'm exercising hard enough.

If your standing around in the rain use the hardshell. A dedicated waterproof won't wet through unlike a mixed fabric.

If your standing around in the cold and rain use both, waterproof on the outside. Warm and dry.

If your walking in winter conditions use both. Warm and dry, can cut down to just the waterproof if needed.

2 layers gives you 3 possibilities. 1 combined layer gives you 1 possibility.

Stu

You make a very good point and that is what I have coming round to thinking. From my mountain experience I have always used goretex and really liked it but found it too hot for some situations. The problem then is that you take of the jacket and need the right level of protection. I guess this is exactly what the softshell idea is for. I have been getting back into hill walking recently and wanted that gap filled but couldn't think what to use. Thank you for putting two and two together for me. I actually feel a bit stupid for not working it out myself.

Last year my brother gave me a stretch pertex Montane softshell. I haven't used it on the hills but regularly run in it and it is excellent for high activity in all weathers. The fact that I love it should have given me the hint to try it!

ANOTHER QUESTION- If the softshell/ hardshell combo is good, does any body have any suggestions on a combo that is more rugged/fireproof than pertex and goretex? Something like a light Fjallraven softshell G100 with a double ventile or lined jacket. And do those double layered jackets like the arktis smock or Ray Mears favourite Tahr anorak have any breathability at all?