Is a psk really needed in the UK?
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It's also just not for you. I've used what's in my pockets for other people much more than for myself.
Yes I get that. I just went off on one. I do carry several small items in a personal survival kit. You just never know. It takes up no room and could save your backside x
i remember something similar, out cycling in shorts sunny, 2 hours later snowing, had kit on the back of my bike...
anotehr bike time, old lady fell over on roadside, used mylar blanket and kendal mintcake untill ambulance arrived....
anotehrtime coworker broke several buttons of blouse, i had sewing kit in bag, came to rescue, other coworkers were not happy with me that day....
My PSK is knowledge, risk assessment, appropriate kit for what I'm doing.
For example I carry a cycle toolkit with my work bag to fix my Brompton for example but when I had an incident I simply folded and carried it to the station so I caught my train. Fixing it would taken too long. Knowledge of that meant that aspect of my work PSK was really redundant. I have had need of the SAK cybertool for work though and the duct tape too. Perhaps ditch the rest and keep those things.
It's about what you need without going overboard imho.
An example of that is the old lists of what you should carry for winter walks in the hills we have. 40l sack possibly bigger. Shelter, sleeping bag, mat, etc. All well meaning but if you know what you're doing you go a lot lighter and actually reduce your risks of needing the extra kit. Simply put, the extra kit would slow you down and tire you out quicker. More likely to mean you'll need it and get into difficulties. So not carrying that extra kit you've never ever used in 20 years of winter hillwalking means you do that walk well before it gets dark or the weather turns. Keeps you safer.
Sorry to be so critical but over prepping imho seems negative. BTW during lockdown and covid we never once ran out of anything we needed. Toilet paper always came into stock before we ran out without us ever needing to buy more frequently than normal. Some things did run out for a week or so but we got other things instead and had no problems. I don't personally know anyone who did have much of an issue. Must have been a southern thing lol!
For example I carry a cycle toolkit with my work bag to fix my Brompton for example but when I had an incident I simply folded and carried it to the station so I caught my train. Fixing it would taken too long. Knowledge of that meant that aspect of my work PSK was really redundant. I have had need of the SAK cybertool for work though and the duct tape too. Perhaps ditch the rest and keep those things.
It's about what you need without going overboard imho.
An example of that is the old lists of what you should carry for winter walks in the hills we have. 40l sack possibly bigger. Shelter, sleeping bag, mat, etc. All well meaning but if you know what you're doing you go a lot lighter and actually reduce your risks of needing the extra kit. Simply put, the extra kit would slow you down and tire you out quicker. More likely to mean you'll need it and get into difficulties. So not carrying that extra kit you've never ever used in 20 years of winter hillwalking means you do that walk well before it gets dark or the weather turns. Keeps you safer.
Sorry to be so critical but over prepping imho seems negative. BTW during lockdown and covid we never once ran out of anything we needed. Toilet paper always came into stock before we ran out without us ever needing to buy more frequently than normal. Some things did run out for a week or so but we got other things instead and had no problems. I don't personally know anyone who did have much of an issue. Must have been a southern thing lol!
PSKs predate even Lofty. RAF personnel adopted tobacco tins,
Now de riguer Altoids to carry basic EE items in a flying jacket.
Obviously, a bug out bag didn’t facilitate climbing over the main wing spar of a Lancaster to join the caterpillar club. There were some additional items sewn into the uniform. BUTTON compass WAS concealed in a tunic button and the wire saw in the collar lining. Some items were smuggled into POW camps via KLIM tins. Those dry buttons are virtually useless , and the saws never meant for bushcrafting in Bavaria, but cutting
Through barracks and fence lumber.
It became a fad post WW2 akin to
Paracord bracelets and a Ray Mears pattern ‘Bushcraft’ knife.
It’s one of those Wowee! I can make fire using moonlight and stand naked and embarrassed next to Survival Lily emoting Rambo, kill
Bart the Bear and emerge 6 months after being posted missing, presumed dead having gained 30 pounds consuming , and a fur coat processed with said knife; from Bart, not Lily. They are, junk in concept, contents and any confirmed emergency use.
Now de riguer Altoids to carry basic EE items in a flying jacket.
Obviously, a bug out bag didn’t facilitate climbing over the main wing spar of a Lancaster to join the caterpillar club. There were some additional items sewn into the uniform. BUTTON compass WAS concealed in a tunic button and the wire saw in the collar lining. Some items were smuggled into POW camps via KLIM tins. Those dry buttons are virtually useless , and the saws never meant for bushcrafting in Bavaria, but cutting
Through barracks and fence lumber.
It became a fad post WW2 akin to
Paracord bracelets and a Ray Mears pattern ‘Bushcraft’ knife.
It’s one of those Wowee! I can make fire using moonlight and stand naked and embarrassed next to Survival Lily emoting Rambo, kill
Bart the Bear and emerge 6 months after being posted missing, presumed dead having gained 30 pounds consuming , and a fur coat processed with said knife; from Bart, not Lily. They are, junk in concept, contents and any confirmed emergency use.
i know a lot of people who did
i had something like 12 bags of flour, but i know loads of people who had problems
i think with no flour available we approached 2 bags, but by having stocks we didnt proove a burden on the availble resources for otehr people
my parents said they were well stocked and had loads of food, turns out it meant they had food for 3 days as they relied on buying daily from tehir local corner shop to "support" the shop owners, spending far more than at supermarket....
like car insurance, some people have never needed.
but to say you can hillwalk and never need an emergency bag, fak etc might be true...untill you need it.
changing weather is a killer in the UK...i know several firends who came unprepared to days out and really suffered to point of almost needing ambulance.
and as above post, old lady who fell...
id argue that statement is far too broad
saying there are better kits in survival use than a tin yes....but ive used my psk in emergency use, never in survival use. but then how many on this forum have been ina real life and death wilderness survival situation.....
Colin, who ive mentioned before ( who died a couple of weeks ago) was one of the initial members of teh SAS, mentoend that the only kit they had at the start was an old compass, i dont think it was liquid filled either. ive got his very early typewriter survival instructors manual, hand written notes, it menions survival tin ( probably same source as lofty) so definitely considered by military as usefull....but then a lot of americans swear by having firearms in various kits, so definitely different kits for different people...
small aliexpress molle belt pouches, so spread, alongside torch and leatherman surge pouches on a belt, suplemented by a response pack for some larger items....
Reading the comments I suspect the term personal survival kit has been replaced largely by the more commercially accepted term EDC
I am always surprised by the attitude of some who wish to borrow some of my kit, a knife, a torch etc then almost take the mick that I had thought to bring one?
I am always surprised by the attitude of some who wish to borrow some of my kit, a knife, a torch etc then almost take the mick that I had thought to bring one?
Again, my point is a PSK is commonly thought as a Altoids tin
Stuffed with miniaturized kit. A razor blade is not a Mora#1 a choice itself looked on with horror for ‘survival’ With that rat tang and red handle. I do imagine it splendid after trying to carry water in a condom , stuffed in your sock to commit suicide with. This, after the brass wire that made all of three snares failed to supplement
The Kendall’s and trail mix. And people will seal it all up with tape and wrapped in paracord. WHEN they open it; the mini ferro rod has corroded. Aluminum foil for boiling water has torn along the fold lines
and water treatment tabs spiced the three survival meals ( actual mints) with lovely ammonia. Tins are great for odds and ends like sewing. For a core survival resource? Walter Mitty held the condom under a sandstone outcropping after crash landing his Spitfire in North Africa. The drops of water emerged from a dry River bed every five minutes. Ta poket ta poket ta poket.
Stuffed with miniaturized kit. A razor blade is not a Mora#1 a choice itself looked on with horror for ‘survival’ With that rat tang and red handle. I do imagine it splendid after trying to carry water in a condom , stuffed in your sock to commit suicide with. This, after the brass wire that made all of three snares failed to supplement
The Kendall’s and trail mix. And people will seal it all up with tape and wrapped in paracord. WHEN they open it; the mini ferro rod has corroded. Aluminum foil for boiling water has torn along the fold lines
and water treatment tabs spiced the three survival meals ( actual mints) with lovely ammonia. Tins are great for odds and ends like sewing. For a core survival resource? Walter Mitty held the condom under a sandstone outcropping after crash landing his Spitfire in North Africa. The drops of water emerged from a dry River bed every five minutes. Ta poket ta poket ta poket.
I have a small pouch in my car break down bag that could be a survival kit. Yes it has snare wire, handy for repairing spectacle frames when a screw drips out.
The classic “survival” items in it are generally used for repairing more capable items that break. No wire saw (as there is a SAK) but there is a button compass. Even though I am unlikely to be in the run from Colditz.
The fire lighting items are for getting the pocket stove going if I am stuck overnight but will work with natural materials too.
I’ve know a couple of people get into trouble due to exposure and one died.
The later was drunk driving, crashed his car and staggered away with a head injury. No PSK would have helped as it would not increase his IQ.
The other cases I’ve met were people who were unprepared for the conditions, such as walking up Pen-y-fan in brothel creepers and a thin nack during a near white out. Or deciding to swim in a lake and discover cold water shock.
The classic “survival” items in it are generally used for repairing more capable items that break. No wire saw (as there is a SAK) but there is a button compass.
Even though I am unlikely to be in the run from Colditz.The fire lighting items are for getting the pocket stove going if I am stuck overnight but will work with natural materials too.
I’ve know a couple of people get into trouble due to exposure and one died.
The later was drunk driving, crashed his car and staggered away with a head injury. No PSK would have helped as it would not increase his IQ.
The other cases I’ve met were people who were unprepared for the conditions, such as walking up Pen-y-fan in brothel creepers and a thin nack during a near white out. Or deciding to swim in a lake and discover cold water shock.
@neoaliphant
I think what I'm referring to is that a PSK is being talked about as if it's something that one walks around carrying all the time, with this "expect the unexpected" sort of chat... my point is how does one carry it on their person with general life... I mean does one really need a utility belt with a snare/fishing kit/small house/kitchen sink in a tobacco tin on a pouch with them all day everyday?
Or is it event specific, in which case, as before, I carry various items in my pack which can be used if things go mildly offcourse. Obviously this does put me at risk if I were to lose my pack somehow, I just haven't yet figured that one out... especially as it will be in my vehicle until my destination, then on my back...
I think what I'm referring to is that a PSK is being talked about as if it's something that one walks around carrying all the time, with this "expect the unexpected" sort of chat... my point is how does one carry it on their person with general life... I mean does one really need a utility belt with a snare/fishing kit/small house/kitchen sink in a tobacco tin on a pouch with them all day everyday?
Or is it event specific, in which case, as before, I carry various items in my pack which can be used if things go mildly offcourse. Obviously this does put me at risk if I were to lose my pack somehow, I just haven't yet figured that one out... especially as it will be in my vehicle until my destination, then on my back...
@Ozmundo
Precisely, and no tobacco tin with a rubber, snare, or fishing kit could get people out of those situations...
Additionally, I remain unconvinced that someone in a typical walk of life should consider ANY PSK as their lifeline, whatever country you're in...
I can understand in a military situation where you've had to bug out in a hurry or bailed out of a plane or **** in some sort of environment, but for normal walks of life, I'd suggest you'd have to be extremely reckless to be saved by a kit like that.
Precisely, and no tobacco tin with a rubber, snare, or fishing kit could get people out of those situations...
Additionally, I remain unconvinced that someone in a typical walk of life should consider ANY PSK as their lifeline, whatever country you're in...
I can understand in a military situation where you've had to bug out in a hurry or bailed out of a plane or **** in some sort of environment, but for normal walks of life, I'd suggest you'd have to be extremely reckless to be saved by a kit like that.
I think there's at least two discussions going on.
One is about PSK as in a very small and portable emergency survival kit that is made up and carried everywhere in case you end up in the wild needing to be survive.
Another is about sensible kit for your outdoors or travel activities based on personal risk assessments. More bulky and tbh more practical in that it might include sleeping bags for winter car travel or cuts kit when off to whittle away your time in the woods, etc.
Another topic is prepping in a modern UK where tbh there's very few places truly out of range of a rescue and geopolitically there's a relatively quiet place. Or even at the height of covid pandemic there was very little chance you'll starve or run out of water. Yes, you might not be able to bake your favourite bread, but hey boy a hovis and get over it!
My grandad told me stories of the logging camps he occasionally stayed at in the summer over in Michigan as a kid. Two weeks minimum from the nearest medic via mule or if lucky cart. His dad saw his brother (my granddad's uncle) get hit by a widowmaker. My great grandad got to spend a day with him while he was dying before getting sent back to work. He died two days later! Ppl just got on with things.
Other tales was climbing out of the first floor window to dig yourself out of the front door. How every street had at least one truck with a snowplough permanently attached through winter and facing out of a garage ready to go. My grandad said it was his dad's down his street and he was always the first one out clearing up to people's garages or sheds so they could just drive away in the morning.
Winters where fluid left in car could freeze or nearly so you had heaters under your car at night.
Loads of those stories i simply could not understand coming from mild and small UK. So imho prepping is only really important in places as big as America and other places where there's a long trip to get anything else. I've never had any issue without prepping in the UK. Never needed it. But accept some find comfort in doing it or might even have a need for it like disabled prepper. I do think most do it for other reasons.
One is about PSK as in a very small and portable emergency survival kit that is made up and carried everywhere in case you end up in the wild needing to be survive.
Another is about sensible kit for your outdoors or travel activities based on personal risk assessments. More bulky and tbh more practical in that it might include sleeping bags for winter car travel or cuts kit when off to whittle away your time in the woods, etc.
Another topic is prepping in a modern UK where tbh there's very few places truly out of range of a rescue and geopolitically there's a relatively quiet place. Or even at the height of covid pandemic there was very little chance you'll starve or run out of water. Yes, you might not be able to bake your favourite bread, but hey boy a hovis and get over it!
My grandad told me stories of the logging camps he occasionally stayed at in the summer over in Michigan as a kid. Two weeks minimum from the nearest medic via mule or if lucky cart. His dad saw his brother (my granddad's uncle) get hit by a widowmaker. My great grandad got to spend a day with him while he was dying before getting sent back to work. He died two days later! Ppl just got on with things.
Other tales was climbing out of the first floor window to dig yourself out of the front door. How every street had at least one truck with a snowplough permanently attached through winter and facing out of a garage ready to go. My grandad said it was his dad's down his street and he was always the first one out clearing up to people's garages or sheds so they could just drive away in the morning.
Winters where fluid left in car could freeze or nearly so you had heaters under your car at night.
Loads of those stories i simply could not understand coming from mild and small UK. So imho prepping is only really important in places as big as America and other places where there's a long trip to get anything else. I've never had any issue without prepping in the UK. Never needed it. But accept some find comfort in doing it or might even have a need for it like disabled prepper. I do think most do it for other reasons.
I might add this to my tag line as I feel I am always mentioning it - the tin is part of the kit and not the whole kit.
I wonder what the Spetsnaz carried in this regard?
The Cub motto is "Do Your Best" and the Scout motto is "Be Prepared".
I think if you look at what Mor's was thinking and people like Ray, Dave Canterbury(10 Cs) and many others the idea is still alive and well. I am looking at what Greencraft carries with his EDC cut kit, Tampon/Duct tape pouch and UK legal pocket knife (with flashlight and firesteel) in another pouch.
This conversation is branching.
EDC everyone understands as this you might use everyday and for daily walk of life emergencies. ( i used the ductape in my belt kit a few hours ago)
some peoples edc could be used as a wilderness survival kit, as there is overlap.....
PSK, really these are different sizes, and while less likely to be needed, people do die in the UK because of weather...last year i think it was aprox 1000/day durirng the heatwaves in the UK, i wonder how many didnt have hats, water soaked buff, water bottles etc.....
a survival tin, which is often an E&E tin, yes, i agree, this is mainly for military, loads of my friends made when I was about 7, i changed to a larger format a few years later.
the genrral idea nehind a tin is you dont use it for edc, and you dont plunder, you take when you are in more extreme environments......less likely cycling in the UK.....
but saying you have no need to prep in the UK is naive, ive been smug cooking on wood stove when there were days long power cuts for some people.
so naming convention is part of the issue...
EDC everyone understands as this you might use everyday and for daily walk of life emergencies. ( i used the ductape in my belt kit a few hours ago)
some peoples edc could be used as a wilderness survival kit, as there is overlap.....
PSK, really these are different sizes, and while less likely to be needed, people do die in the UK because of weather...last year i think it was aprox 1000/day durirng the heatwaves in the UK, i wonder how many didnt have hats, water soaked buff, water bottles etc.....
a survival tin, which is often an E&E tin, yes, i agree, this is mainly for military, loads of my friends made when I was about 7, i changed to a larger format a few years later.
the genrral idea nehind a tin is you dont use it for edc, and you dont plunder, you take when you are in more extreme environments......less likely cycling in the UK.....
but saying you have no need to prep in the UK is naive, ive been smug cooking on wood stove when there were days long power cuts for some people.
so naming convention is part of the issue...
I do have some “edc” items that I really regard as useful day to day rather than emergency/escape kit. These are things in my pockets.
Watch with clipper compass, cotton hankie, Spartan SAK, triangle bandage, small ferro rod, glass punch and seat belt cutter, pilot gloves.
All other situations it’s Mastercard….
Watch with clipper compass, cotton hankie, Spartan SAK, triangle bandage, small ferro rod, glass punch and seat belt cutter, pilot gloves.
All other situations it’s Mastercard….
On a bus full of students returning from York to Glasgow....torrential rain and the windscreen wipers stopped working on the motorway.Reading the comments I suspect the term personal survival kit has been replaced largely by the more commercially accepted term EDC
I am always surprised by the attitude of some who wish to borrow some of my kit, a knife, a torch etc then almost take the mick that I had thought to bring one?
No tools on the bus, but I had a Swiss Card in my handbag.....it has a neat wee bit that fits over a hex bolt head, and it sorted the problem.
"What have you got that for?", said one of the lecturers in a very disparaging and disapproving tone.
"Fixing buses apparently", I replied.
