Intro, Thanks, one pole tipis, links,

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DavidW

Guest
Hello to the Bushcraftuk group,

My name is David and I live in the USA in the state of W.Va. in the central eastern part of the country.

I found my way to this site several months ago while searching for information about one pole tipi type shelters. The Moskoselkatan or Tentipi in particular. I was looking for an alternative to the Kifaru as I did not want the condensation of the synethic fabric , did not need the light weight and there were other reasons I was looking for an alternative design. Along the way I found several other lavvu type tents but concentrated upon the tentipi mostly because I could find out the most information about that model in a language I could read. I have been lurking here off and on for several months also enjoying the many other topics covered here. Lately I've been mining the list for information about fire pistons and khukuri knives. The fire pistons I only recently heard about and a friend of many years , a submarine shipmate from many years ago , got interested in khukuris over the past year and gave me one as a gift this past June during our annual visit .

I wanted to say thanks for all the information about the tentipi provided here and on your sister site , Song of the Paddle. I ordered a Varrie 7 cp from Caspar at Nordic Outdoor week before last , recieved it early this past week. I've not had time to camp out in it yet but have errected it twice to try to get the hang of how it goes up and gets folded and packed away. Saturday I set it up in the yard , left it up over night and spent a few hours in it Saturday evening after the temperature dropped , we've had heavy frost each night for the last several days, with a Heat Pal 1500. To see how well it heated , to see if I had any condensations problems ( only a little along the bottom part) and to see if I did myself in with carbon monoxide. I have a major Boy Scout outing early next month with my son, and have no desire to end up in the news with a head line about family and son's friend found warm and dead at scout camp. :-( . I am however thinking strongly about getting a battery powered CO monitor after finding some on-line web sites with studies about CO concentrations in tents, I've located a couple of models at aeromedix.

BTW- when asked about the price , I only say to friends who ask that it is my "Five to Ten Year Jim Carney tent." And leave it at that . Meaning it will take five to ten years to work up the willingness and the cash to buy it and Jim is a friend of 20 years, who tows a trailer to all the motorcycle ralleys he/we attend. When I ask why go to the bother of towing a trailer he says it is to bring along a big tent becasue he is to old and fat to put his pants on laying down in small tent . So I am planning ahead , :)

I also wanted to say thanks by passing along some links to other sites I have found interesting and thought you might find them interesting too.

First a one pole tipi type shelter I found after I ordered the Tentipi. An interesting design from Germany. I never turned up the Firetent system web site on this list in my searches here but perhaps I just missed it. They describe it as a modular system , as it is constructed of several parts which can be used seperately or assembled together to make a lavvu . Also I am wondering if anyone is familar with this tent model and has used them ? Impressions ?

http://www.scandia-tents.com/index.html
http://www.scandia-tents.com/english-start.htm

This web page show how the Firetent system Khota is constructed out of 4 TST tarps + 1 RST ( rain tarp) , or alternatively - you can use just one or two of the TST tarps to make tents called half-boat or boat for 1-2 or 2-4 people. The half-boat shelter is similar to a type I have seen referred to on reinactment sites as a type used in pioneer days where a jib sail was made into an open faced on shore tent. Anyway , it certainly offers many options for use and if being backpacked it offers and easy way to divide the weight amonst the hikers, in a four man group each carries one fourth of the total weight.
http://www.scandia-tents.com/english-techdata.htm

For some different pictures see this german language introduction page, the main site has links to four languages.
http://www.scandia-tents.com/deutsch-start.htm

Another one pole tipi from Florida , which I found earlier but also never found mentioned here in my shelter searches here on this list, but again perhaps I just missed finding it.

http://www.eztipi.com/

Lastly , I wanted to pass along links to two other web sites which I have found have interesting information. - perhaps they are pages already known here but I never searched for them. Hope you find the information interesting and usefull too if you've not seen them before.

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/index.html
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_content.php

Anyway, you folks have a great site/forum here with a lot of great information and I am glad I found it.

Best regards,

David
 

Bisamratte

Nomad
Jun 11, 2006
341
1
Karben
Hello and welcome to bcuk, :)

I quite like the idea of the German firetent, it seems to be a very flexible system. At EUR 1.205,00 its a bit expensive for 4 tarps, and no ropes. I would definatly go for a proper teepee style tent and use the rest of my 1205€ to buy lots of shiny things :D

Cheers for the info

Andy
 

anthonyyy

Settler
Mar 5, 2005
655
6
ireland
Welcome David.

Check out this German site (in German only)
http://www.feuerzelt.online.ms/
They have one available for about euro 260 (click on “Kultalavvu und mehr” on the top of the page)
This particular model weighs only 1.1 Kg without the pole.


An other German company make traditional tipis and also a one pole tipi. (http://www.halang.de/)
They regularly advertise on ebay. The one-pole tipi sells for about euro 230. I have one myself and I love it. It is heavy though.
 

daveymonkey

Tenderfoot
Sep 26, 2005
54
1
55
if you follow this translated link http://translate.google.com/transla...lavvu&hl=en&lr=&rls=GEUA,GEUA:2006-20,GEUA:en it tells you all about them. Ive got one myself and theyre a fantastic lavvu and i couldnt recommend the company highly enough with p&p the price came to just under £200 a lot cheaper than a lot of the big names and a lot lighter aswell and as its fire resistant theres no problems keeping it warm.
 
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DavidW

Guest
Thanks for the welcome messages from all who replied.

In reference to the feuerzelt web site sent by daveymonkey. I couldn't figure out just which of the models displayed on that web page that you were referring to. That web page shows several of the Tentipi tents , along with Helsport and others . Though I think you may have intented to point to the Kultalavvu tent also referred to by Anthonyyy.

I would like to comment a bit further about the Troll Fire-tent system.
http://www.scandia-tents.com/

Scandia-tents is the international web site . The Troll (Helmut Wunder ) also has another parent web site http://www.troll.de/
Where you can see he offers , I think , 3 different models. At the next link you can see many pictures of how the Troll Kothe is assembled. This would be the laavu configuration.
http://www.troll.de/aufbau_kohte.htm

But the most interesting thing I found upon further research is that the Troll's product is really a refinement of the Kothe design which has been around since about 1929 or about 67 years.

The Kothe was designed by Eberhard Koebel for the German youth group known as dj1.11( dejay one eleven) . dj referrs to deutscge jungenschaft or german boys federation , which began on 1st Nov 1929. Eberhard was apparently aka Tusk and based his design on the traditional lavvu tent he had experince with after outings in the northland.

Since that time this design has become a standard of various German Scouting groups. A sort of cult following has devleoped around what is known as Schwarzzelte , black tent. Why black has developed as a traditional color I can't quite figure out .

There is another company ( Tortuga ) which makes them only in the traditional color of black ( what Tortuga calls their black-line product) and using the traditional fastening method for joining the tarps edge to edge. They offer the kohte in several sizes.Various fourms debate which is the better design the Troll or Tortuga.
http://www.tortuga-gmbh.de/pages/kohtenpag.html

I think one reason this design has lived on among the scout groups is that using them provides many opportunites to teach the young many bushcraft skills and offers many flexible uses by combining the basic tarp shapes. They have to cut and make the pegs, and long poles used to support the shelter, learning the use of axes, saws etc. and how-to tie various knots, and lash various pieces together to errect these type of shelters.

If you're interested - more information can be found at these links:

http://www.stamm3.de/beo/index.php/PfadfinderKultur/UnsereZelte
http://www.stamm-sachsen.de/sachsen/service/jurten/text.php3

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohte
or for a sometimes strange web translation of the above site into english
http://tinyurl.com/ydu9kn

this next one is a dealer catalog of the Tortuga products but shows a huge Schwarzzelt Castle built by Scouts in one picture along with other pictures -
http://www.ruesthaus.de/servicezentrum/katalog_kohten_u_jurten.pdf

How the Pathfinders use the tarps in different configurations - sketches , in german
http://www.daisbach.de/pfadfinder/zelte.htm

Pdf document in german but has nice sketches of how they use loop and toggle fastening techniques
http://www.fahrtenbedarf.de///dokumente/kohtenaufbau.pdf
http://www.stamm-sachsen.de/sachsen/service/jurten/anleitungen/Kohte.pdf

To me the Kothe is somewhat like the Zeltbahn tents which were discussed on this fourm a few months ago
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=14405&highlight=zeltbahn

Anyway , I think it is an interesting kit design which would allow one to start with just one kothe tarp and if funds or need develope it can be expanded to lavvu or even yurt if you wanted. Or ideas from its construction could be used for other self developed shelters. I have a friend from Germany who I have emailed to ask if he is familiar with the schwarzelt tents and could describe them further . I had hoped to add his insight before responding. Unfortunately he is in China at the moment on business and connection from there is difficult. So his short reply to me is that he would send me a longer answer once he has returned home.

best regards,

David
 
Sep 25, 2006
7
0
48
Canada
Hi Folks......just want to keep this Tipi thread going......it is great!! Lots of good info!

Does anyone know of a good lightweight Fire Resistant material??

- I'd like to come up with a pole free design that will allow the use of an open fire. However I would need the material to be light enough to allow short pack distances.

- I am thinking of hoisting the top using ropes attached to trees.

- I would also use a liner to aid in draft and warmth.
 

anthonyyy

Settler
Mar 5, 2005
655
6
ireland
I like the look of the “shelter” from :
http://www.halang-shop.de/Shop/

click on “zelte/tent” on the left hand side
then “shelter”

They claim that it’s the smallest tent you can light a fire in. Made from cotton it weighs 8Kg.

The design appeals to me as you can erect it with the external poles or simply tie it to a tree without using poles. I would like to see one made with a lighter material.
 
Sep 25, 2006
7
0
48
Canada
I like this one..... Looks great....I like the smoke hole idea. Seems easy to make.

Detailansicht Ein-Stangen-Tipi / Tourtipi
Das Touren Tipi ist ein Rundzelt mit Rauchabzug. Es wird bewohnt wie das echte Tipi der Naturvölker Nordamerikas. Die Zeltplane ist ein äußerst robustes Baumwollmaterial . Die einzige Mittelstange ermöglicht ein schnelles und leichtes Aufbauen, auch für ungeübte. Es gibt keine aufwändige Seilverspannung. Erdheringe sichern die Standfestigkeit des Tipi´s bei starkem Sturm. Der Zelteingang wird mit einer Türklappe verschlossen. Die Türklappe ist wie beim Tipi gestaltet. Das Naturzelt für mobile Leute leicht zu transportieren und aufzustellen.
100 % Baumwollgewebe, ca 420g/qm Qualität, natur imprägniert
aufzubauen mit einer Mittelstange

3,5 m Durchmesser / 2,80m hoch (andere Größen auf Wunsch)

Lieferung: Plane, Zubehör, Mittelstange teilbar Metall

Packmaß - ca 1,20m * 30 cm, ca 12 Kg

345,00 €
Preise inkl. MwSt., zzgl. Versand

Hinzufügen zum Warenkorb
Produkt weiterempfehlen

Now where is my German translation book.......should only take me a few hours to translate.....
 
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DavidW

Guest
FWIW - here is how google translation tools translates the text.
seaweeds seems to mean central pole and
herrings seems to mean tent pegs.


A bar Tipi/Tourtipi Routes the Tipi is a
round tent with smoke outlet. Like the
genuine Tipi of the nature peoples of North
America is inhabited. The tent tarpaulin is
an extremely durable cotton material. Fast
and easy developing makes the only central
seaweeds possible, also for untrained. There
is no aufwändige Seilverspannung. Earth
herrings secure the stability of the Tipi´s
with strong storm. The tent entrance is
locked with a door flap. The door flap is
arranged as with the Tipi. To transport and
set up the nature tent for mobile people
easily. 100% cotton fabric, approx. 420g/qm
quality, nature impregnates to construct
with central seaweeds 3.5 m diameters/2,80m
highly (other sizes when desired) Supply:
Tarpaulin, accessories, central seaweeds
divisibly metal Luggage measure - approx.
1,20m * 30 cm, approx. 12 kg

With a 1.2m x 30 cm packed size (47.4in. x 11.8 in) and 12kg ( 26.4 lbs) weight it will be not a backpackable shelter.

Hope that helps,
David


200smk said:
I like this one.....
Detailansicht Ein-Stangen-Tipi / Tourtipi
Das Touren Tipi ..........
Now where is my German translation book.......should only take me a few hours to translate.....
 

anthonyyy

Settler
Mar 5, 2005
655
6
ireland
200smk said:
I like this one..... Looks great....I like the smoke hole idea. Seems easy to make.

Detailansicht Ein-Stangen-Tipi / Tourtipi
...

The company sells these regularly on Ebay for about euro 200. I have a one-pole tipi and I love it, although it is heavy and bulky to transport. It is very easy to errect.
I was told by a tipi maker that, strictly these are "bell tents" not "tipis".
 
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DavidW

Guest
200smk,

You might consider one of these one pole tipis too.

This one only weights 4 kgs , about 9 lbs. It claims to be useable by hanging from a tree. It is not double wall per your original post.
http://www.tipi.at/e/1st.html

This next link offers a pyramid one pole tipi, no smoke hole but offers an optional stove pipe hole and also says they offere liners. Not sure if liners are offered for all models.
http://www.strinztipi.com/
The above site also says their sunforger canvas is light weight and flame retardant. I am sure there are many other sources, but for an intro to what they offer and an indication of what else might be available elsewhere you can check their raw canvas page at
http://www.strinztipi.com/index.php?crn=252

No specs about weight etc. on this one. This may be closest to what you originally asked about. It says it is one pole , rip stop nylon tipi. Beyond that you'll have to email them for more details.
http://www.kansas.net/~barchery/ol'ebuff.html/konza_tipi.htm
But from these pictures , they appear to have a liner visible through the outer fabric , and a smoke hole.
http://www.kansas.net/~barchery/ol'ebuff.html/images/nylon12+18.JPG

And you might try looking at the links on the web page listed next, to see if any of these manufacturerers make one pole tipis which might meet your requirements. This web page list tipi makers in countries all around the world. To many links for me to check them all - so there might be something of interest.
http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com/tipi_makers.htm

Next , one of these two books from Duluth Pack , had a design for a double walled , pyramid shaped shelter which was used by early arctic explorers. I can't recall just which of the two it was in , and unfortunately can't locate my copies just now. I also don't recall the disign having a smoke hole for an open fire, but he counted the double wall construction as being the most important factor in the design.
Paradise Below Zero
http://www.duluthpack.com/product_detail.aspx?product=Paradise Below Zero
or
New Way of the Wilderness
http://www.duluthpack.com/product_detail.aspx?product=New Way of the Wilderness

If forced to place a bet on which of the two the design was in , I'd bet on the first one. Of course it would be a make it yourself project. But several places offer flame retardent canvas materials such as Sunforger canvas etc.

Lastly , the folks at this link offer several sizes of lavvu. They are not single pole lavvus , but for the ten foot size they do offer foldable aluminium poles but they fold to 1.6m , six feet. Nice shelters though if weight / size is not an issue. See Northern Lavvu at:
http://www.lavvu.com/

Best regards,

David


200smk said:
Hi Folks......just want to keep this Tipi thread going......it is great!! Lots of good info!

Does anyone know of a good lightweight Fire Resistant material??

- I'd like to come up with a pole free design that will allow the use of an open fire. However I would need the material to be light enough to allow short pack distances.

- I am thinking of hoisting the top using ropes attached to trees.

- I would also use a liner to aid in draft and warmth.
 
Sep 25, 2006
7
0
48
Canada
Thanks Very much Guys...!! You are a great help!!

It's late fall here in Canada where I live and it will be getting really cold quickly......this will be a great winter project for me! Once it's finished I'll get out and give it a try in the Jan-Feb -37C weather!!

Thanks Again!! :notworthy
 

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