Interesting survival article

[chris chris]

Also found this on the web last night, interesting comment about the worth of information in Lofty Wisemans Handbook, being compared to the back of a cornflakes packet. :shock:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,1267524,00.html

Chris

 

[bambodoggy]

Interesting article, Johnny runs a Survival school which seems to run very good courses....(I'm on their mailing list).
Not sure about his comment about Lofty's book but I would suggest he's been media edited from what he actually said.....and lets face it, he's right...reading that one book doesn't make you a survival expert and I'm sure Lofty would be the first to agree...you need practice and training on top!

Turns out Johnny was right about his not being able to survive as he was found in a road ditch with no attempt at a covert shelter and he was suffering from dehydration which is just plain stupid as at very least he could have drank from cattle sources.

To do what he did Hobson must have been a bit of a nutter and was no doubt very very scared while on the run....this was most likely his un-doing. Regardless of rights and wrongs (no rights in this case IMO) but no matter how "hard" you are I don't believe anyone can think straight under these conditions and facing the rest of your life (rightly so) in jail.

I think the media hyped up his "survival skills" to make the manhunt story more interesting.... heck I've read "Paradise below Zero" but that doesn't make me Captain Scott!
I'd suggest from the state he was found in that the average boy scout would cope better (stress issues aside).

Just my opinion anyway.....

 

[jakunen]

As I've sain in other threads, if they can hype it up to get you reaching into your pocket to buy the paper...

Lofty's book, like many others, has both good points - its practical detail and its small enought to fit in a pocket, but like others skims info. I wouldn't trust it to help me distinquish water-droplet hemlock from watercress, but it has its place.

I've not yet come across one book that is THE bible, each has its own merits and flaws, no matter who the author.

And I woudl imagine you're right about the fact he failed. He probably was thinking more about evading capture and keepign out of jail than about his survival.

 

[bambodoggy]

Spot on Jak....I've not found one all complete book either.


I know from a little e&e I did in the TA that fear of being caught can seriously affect your ability to survive and make sound survival desions......hence the training! lol ):

 

[jakunen]

Even with training it can still get to you whether you're hunter or hunted.

On one course we had to both do e&e and hunter roles.
We had a full weeks training in what to do and what not to do, how to lay false trails, good survival foods, the usual.
Come the exercise most people were captured very early on. Most peopel forgot their training in a hurry to egt away and let the thought of failing the test overpower their thoughts of passing the test and remembering their training.
Then the roles reversed, we were split into sections. Some instructors did everything wrong to show us what we'd done wrong, some made it difficult, some made it damn difficult.

We found a very easy trail and several sections thought "Ah, they went that way! Come on lads" and promptly got ambushed. My lot decided to listen to the training we'd had, we thought "ok, he went this way. Nice easy trail. A bit too easy maybe. Don't like this..." and avoided the booby traps and caught the swine. He was too cocky and got caught out. (and tied up and left in a ditch. Weelll, he was an instructor after all and deserved it...):rolmao:

 

[bambodoggy]

I was caught on day three....which I was quite pleased with....meant I only had two days for the RTR phase....poor blokes that got caught on the first day had nearly 5 days of it!!!!!!!!

We were alone and unarmed so no way to set up ambushes.

Great fun looking back on it but fairly scarey at the time with an entire company of RGJ hunting us and a RAF Police unit with dogs tracking us!!!!

Two of the lads made it to day four and one was stitched up and taken in on the 5th morning as he approach an RV....(Obviously they had to do it in order for him to get to the RTR phase....

 

[jakunen]

I was one of the lucky ones too. Made it to about mid morning of the last day.

I got captured due to my own fault, sort of. I found a hollow tree and squirmed inside but couldn't get my legs in so just scooped a trench, dumped the earth by a foxes den and then covered my legs. Three Sgts appear and lean against the tree for a smoke. Nearly gave myself away by laughing as they were talking about the few 'sneaky little s****' they hadn't been able to find. Would have got away with it but one of the b******s stood on me knee...

 

[bambodoggy]

Nearly gave myself away by laughing as they were talking about the few 'sneaky little s****' they hadn't been able to find. Would have got away with it but one of the b******s stood on me knee...

Lol....great stuff!!!! :rolmao: :rolmao: :rolmao:

 

[chris chris]

Personally I've learnt a lot from Lofty Wisemans Books, but saying that I've never read a Corn Flakes packet. I eat Weetabix.

Chris :biggthump

 

[Emdiesse]

That outing you went on sounded like great fun!

I was one of the lucky ones too. Made it to about mid morning of the last day.

I got captured due to my own fault, sort of. I found a hollow tree and squirmed inside but couldn't get my legs in so just scooped a trench, dumped the earth by a foxes den and then covered my legs. Three Sgts appear and lean against the tree for a smoke. Nearly gave myself away by laughing as they were talking about the few 'sneaky little s****' they hadn't been able to find. Would have got away with it but one of the b******s stood on me knee...

LMAO
:You_Rock_ :biggthump

I have also read some of lofty wisemans book: SAS Survival Guide.
To be honest though, i did only have it on libary rent so i didn't get to read much
I learnt alot though

Emdiesse

 

[bambodoggy]

I have also read some of lofty wisemans book: SAS Survival Guide.
To be honest though, i did only have it on libary rent so i didn't get to read much
I learnt alot though

Emdiesse

Sorry to hijack your post Matey but that highlights my original point perfectly...you've got it out from a library and had a little read and one or two of your mates saw it laying about when they came over....you do something wrong and go on the run.... the press talk to your mates, as they would and the next thing your a survival guru who knows all the tricks and will never be taken alive!!!!

Welcome to the wonderful world of the media! lol :rolmao:

 

[Emdiesse]

Sorry to hijack your post Matey but that highlights my original point perfectly...you've got it out from a library and had a little read and one or two of your mates saw it laying about when they came over....you do something wrong and go on the run.... the press talk to your mates, as they would and the next thing your a survival guru who knows all the tricks and will never be taken alive!!!!

Welcome to the wonderful world of the media! lol :rolmao:

No worries

Yeah.
Thats how i figured it would have happened too!

The guy read this book or even the bit that interested him, his mates saw, thought, yeah he must be into all that survival stuff.
The media come along, pop a few Q's and here that he read a survival book (or some of it)
The media over-exagerate on the matter and make out that he is a (as you said) survival guru.

Get out my head!!!

Emdiesse

 

[maddave]

Sorry to hijack your post Matey but that highlights my original point perfectly...you've got it out from a library and had a little read and one or two of your mates saw it laying about when they came over....you do something wrong and go on the run.... the press talk to your mates, as they would and the next thing your a survival guru who knows all the tricks and will never be taken alive!!!!

Welcome to the wonderful world of the media! lol :rolmao:

It's like being a biker I've been riding motorcycles for about 20 years, never raped an old lady, or bit the head off a bat (not a raw one anyhow) and what happens when they put Mad Max on the telly?? All the pubs have signs saying "No Leather Jackets" fer 6 months :?: Wot's that all about then ??

 

[Emdiesse]

Stereotypes?
I know a big word.... wooo!!! :roll:

):

Emdiesse

 

[Justin Time]

The Guardian article only mentions " an SAS handbook" not specifically Wiseman's "The SAS Survival Handbook" so it could have been any old tat. Given some of those SAS titled books you see in the bargain bookshops I think Johnny Crockett was probably right. :?:

 

[woodrat]

I have a exstensive library, [for a poor guy like me], as many as 300 books, but thats just info. we did s.e.r.e. in the service but thats just limited skill enhancement. I would'nt want to try and E&E over there, seems all the odds would be agianst you. even over here with all the wilderness we have they seem to catch them rather easily. we are to far removed from that part of our primal past . besides its the numerical then that gets you, lots and lots of them and one of you. there is a school for man tracking over here there site is, --- tactical tracking operations school inc.

 

[bambodoggy]

This muppet was caught by an old man in a petrol station when he nipped in to buy a packet of ciggy papers and a bottle of water...

It is harder over here to evade though as the place is so much smaller than over where you are... as some one said earlier I think, it's easier to e&e in a large town than in the country over here.....probobally anywhere in the western world....

 

[chris chris]

I did 22 years in the RAF ( Rock apes ) and served in two theatres of war together with many other situations. That involved a substantial amount of Survival, E & E and Fieldcraft training.

I've also read many of the said handbooks and will say, if you take on board the first piece of advice in these publications. " don't panic". Then the rest of the information in there will help you. These books have been written by very experienced people and to cast their worth aside in such a way is not in the theme of things, all books, good or bad will have at some point something wise to give, you might have to look for it and it may not change your mind about that book, but, they have their place.

The thing that went wrong in my opinion for this gentleman, was, perhaps he never had chance to practice or train at the skills he read. This does not make the books worthless.

You may rember at the same time as this, the police found another gentleman hiding in the woods, he also had this kind of book in his reading history - he had a long term shelter built that he was living in, a good water and food source and was said to be comfortable and would probably not been found unless they were doing a widespread search for the other wanted person.

Chris

 

[bambodoggy]

Spot on Chris....I think that's the general consensus from all on here too and most likely that what Johnny said was "changed" by the media.

I do remember the other bloke, he was the one that shot the ex-miner with a crossbow and killed him. He was actually found after being seen by a local dog walker and as you will know that it often the case in "real life" e&e...i.e found by a local...they know the area better than any police or troops that have been drafted in to make a search....but you're right, he had set up a long term shelter and had his "survival priorities" sorted out, unfortunately for him he was a civvy and hadn't had any evasion training...had he just been "taking a break from the world" it seems he could have lived out there just fine....it was the lack of combat survival training that got him.
When I went through my e&e course (and I'm sure yours will have been the same) our instructors made a very strong point of hammering this point home again and again...explaining that no matter how good our fieldcraft and camoflage if what we built as shelter changed the landscape in any way at all we were likely to be spotted by farmers, gamekeepers etc and promptly caught.

I totally agree about the initial panic too, I think it's RM that advocates the "STOP" approach to survival (although others will no doubt have their own ways to remember this):
S - Stop...don't panic/calm down.
T -
O - Orientate yourself to where you are.
P - Plan, what are you doing next.
Wups.....Phil the Muppet has forgotten "T"...lol.....anyone want to fill it it???

Not sure I'd discribe Hobson as a "Gentleman" though....lol....I can think of other ways to discribe him but won't for fear of moderation! lol ):

 

[Kath]

I totally agree about the initial panic too, I think it's RM that advocates the "STOP" approach to survival (although others will no doubt have their own ways to remember this):
S - Stop...don't panic/calm down.
T -
O - Orientate yourself to where you are.
P - Plan, what are you doing next.
Wups.....Phil the Muppet has forgotten "T"...lol.....anyone want to fill it it???

Think? :?:

(I remember being in a bit of a survival situation and trying to do the same thing with P.L.A.N. (protection, location, acquisition, navigation) and we all stood in the below freezing conditions and argued about what the A was for! )