Installing a woodstove in Scotland?

[Janne]

Othe years I learned one trick;

I measure the outside of the house and inside, all different measurements, and compare. External walls without windows, internal walls

Many houses had areas blocked off, or another inner wall erected, which steals many inches from the room.

The space under a staircase is the usual. Makes for excellent storage.

EverythingMac, which wood burner did you get?

 

[Robson Valley]

Since our engineering senses for clean water plumbing are at such odds, what sorts of wood stoves take off the chill?
I 'd like to read (when there's time) how the OP gets on with wood heat.

Any means of circulating the heated air? I have a silly little 5W x 12VDC computer fan that does the job for 2 floors x 1,200 sqft/114 m^2.
All three of my bathrooms and both kitchens have single spout mixed water taps.
Because it's mountain water from across the valley, gravity provides much of the needed delivery pressure.

 

[Janne]

Good point in the heat circulation. Good idea about the Pc fan!

In Norway I bought a Canadian fan that sits on top of the woodburner, the motor is driven by electricity generated by the heat transmitted though the stand.

(absolutely no clue about the underlaying thermo dynamics or whaever it is called.)

It works.
SEverythingMac should give a thought.

 

[Robson Valley]

Those circulation fans use a pair of bimetallic junctions, one very hot, the other quite a bit cooler. The result is electric current flow.
That runs the fan motor. I shied away at the price but thought long and hard about it.
That was never my problem. My Harman pellet stove has a mains blower in the heat exchanger.
That hot air stream is aimed at the stairwell to to the main upper living level.
All well and good and hot air is supposed to rise.
BUT
Up the stairs, that warmed air creates back pressure to resist any new warm air rising.
So in a far back corner of a back bedroom, I cut a 8" hole with pipe in the floor to my workshop below.
The computer fan sits in the hole right at floor level and drives cooler air back down into my lower level.
That's enough to circulate the air through out the entire house.

This is a good trick, a most satisfactory solution to the puzzle of circulation. I had seen it done before.

The workshop. Any fine dust at all gets caught in the rising warm air and is distributed all over everything upstairs. Everything.

 

[Toddy]

The house we live in now was originally built with warm air central heating. It was very comfortable but incredibly dusty. I hoovered out the filters every day and it still felt as though I was never done dusting.
Now we have radiators. It seems to be cheaper; it's certainly easier to clean, dust sooks up quickly and is gone, not sort of circulating around so much in the air.

M

 

[Toddy]

But contamination from what? The hot water is just as clean as the cold water!
The lead pipes that still exist in UK houses?

Do not worry, I had many battles with my builder ( I used the same guy + son for all 4 UK houses )
over the water supply.

The best one was when we had bidets installed.. He thought it was a foot bath!

I understand your reluctance. Tradition!

I know the Brits travel with a plug. It is the butt of many jokes all around the world!
I am sure the security people around the world think the plug is used for something else...

No, our pipes are stainless steel. They're a right royal pain to alter. Thankfully they were only in vogue for a few years. Now most plumbing is copper for central heating, plastic for waste and polysomething or other for most water.

Our cold water is cold and clean, the hot water is never cold and though clean, everywhere it's run a pink mould develops if not constantly cleaned off.

Think about it and shower heads and legionnaire's disease, even if the pink mould is supposedly harmless, I don't want it mixed in the drinking or cooking or dishwashing waters. There's a damned good reason that potable water is often supplied in a seperate tap even in a kitchen where there is a mixer tap at the sink.

Bidets are common, and the reason Brits travel with a plug is that all too often tourist sites don't have them attached to the sinks.
I suppose it could be used to silence more than a gurgling drain though.....

 

[Everything Mac]

In my old house I had an aga fitted with a water tank and 11 radiators to replace the storage heaters. The guys that came round were from the 'local' closest aga approved place and they were not bothered about getting the right sized radiators for each room / checking the output would match the radiators installed, didn't care if there was a plinth in place in the kitchen or not, botched the pipe runs in the loft nackering the possibility of opening a fire in the living room, didn't know about adding additional ventilation into the space where the Aga was, wanted to fit a radiator in the kitchen - the room where the aga [the heat source!] was. Basically the 'approved' people were totally useless didn't spec the job properly and reacted very badly when asked questions on their installation method. Needless to say not very happy.

For a simpler job of installing a stove I'd seriously think of doing it myself - but my current house is three stories facing the north sea so a bit scary at the top! - I'll live with my open fire until I move again.

Goodness me I wasn't expecting so many replies when I got out on shift.
Blimey Mousey that doesn't sound like fun at all. A right nightmare in fact. Did you get it sorted?

I'm from Corfe Mullen originally btw.

EverythingMac, which wood burner did you get?

I decided to go for a Saltfire STX -5 stove. They're based in the south of England. The stoves are steel plate rather than cast iron which is just fine by me. It's a 5kw stove which should be ample for the room/ house in general. The company and the stove had nothing but glowing reviews and just fits in the space we have available. It is a tad tighter than I'd have preferred but the next size down was much much smaller so decided to go with the 5kw version.

One plus side to having holes in the walls of the house is that we discovered we have cavity insulation which is handy. Since the new boiler has been put in we've barely had it more than ticking over as the house gets so warm. I suspect all other heating will get turned off when the stove is in use.

I've seen those little fans, absolutely brilliant for a bigger room. I don't think we'll be getting one though, the room isn't huge and neither is the house. I suspect it won't need it. But we'll get one if needs be down the line.

No, our pipes are stainless steel. They're a right royal pain to alter. Thankfully they were only in vogue for a few years. Now most plumbing is copper for central heating, plastic for waste and polysomething or other for most water.

Blimey I bet that wasn't cheap to put in. I'd have gone for stainless pipes for the most part if it was presented as an option by the plumbers. They just used copper for the main pipe runs to upstairs then used flexible plastic for everything else.

They did a good job for the most part.... apart from you know, fitting three radiators in the wrong place, not fitting a drain for the boiler initially so it kept throwing errors and not working. Making a right naff attempt at filling up the hole in the wall left by the original boiler, oh and having at the solder joints willy nilly and burning/ melting some of the wiring at every joint. So much so that I thought one of the wires had melted and set fire to the wood nearby - as you can imagine I utterly S*** myself when I saw that.

Thankfully all of that was resolved. They moved the radiators, fitted the required drain and once the sparky had been back and checked everything out and replaced the wiring, they paid his bill. I filled the hole from the boiler properly and rendered the outside.

All the best
Andy

 

[Toddy]

You have my complete sympathy on all that. Our central heating changeover took two days from start to finish....well, that's when the workmen finished. The redecorating (and mending all the vent spaces in walls and cupboards, etc.,) took us months and the damned cat managed to get lost under the floor both days too. Obviously thought it was an entire new hidie hole and had no intention of coming out until tempted by roast chicken.

On t'other hand I gained a huge great cupboard out of it The old hot air boiler system filled it, but the new boiler is tiny compared to that one. The old one ran straight up through the loft and kept it warm up there, but the new one is vented straight out the back wall....kind of loss of heat and dry air that way though.

Stainless steel pipes are a nightmare to cut into to fit new connections (washing machines, kitchen and bath re-fittings); they might be sound but not at all flexible.

My brother gave me hell over having cavity wall insulation fitted. He said the cavity wall was the best system and it needed the cavity kept clear to work...well, we aren't damp or mouldy and we are a lot warmer and pay less to heat the house with the filling in.
On balance I suspect the other Toddy is correct, but, for us, the cavity wall insulation works fine. How it would do if the walls weren't sound though is another thing entirely.

Do you have cast iron pots for the top of your new stove ?

M

 

[Janne]

You should have the pink stuff analyzed. Sounds weird, it should not happen!
Legionella can indeed grow in water tanks and such, but if the setting is set so the hot water is hot, it can not grow there.
Above 70 degrees Celsius - Legionella and most other bacteria in the water dies.

You can drink Legionella infested water though, it is only dangerous if you inhale water particles.

 

[Janne]

Most modern wood burners are constructed from sheet steel. Has many benefits, mainly it does not crack.

I did crack one cast Iron woodburner in the past.
I also cracked a antique Swedish woodburner, but that is another story!

Copper tubing is good. I never has S/s.
Plastic is crap. That is the standard on this island. US low standard. In 9 years since we built the house, we have had three leaks. Small ones, touch wood!

I like the Norwegian Jotul stoves. Plus vintage ones, but they are difficult to find in good condition these days.

 

[Broch]

The house we live in now was originally built with warm air central heating. It was very comfortable but incredibly dusty. I hoovered out the filters every day and it still felt as though I was never done dusting.
Now we have radiators. It seems to be cheaper; it's certainly easier to clean, dust sooks up quickly and is gone, not sort of circulating around so much in the air.

M

Dust? you should try living in a 350 year old cruck barn!! When the wind blows we get dust blown around from all the nooks and crannies - the dust itself could be hundreds of years old As for insulation we could drive a small wind turbine by the draughts that come in - I'm slowly getting around to improving things.

As I sit here reading this thread the Villager stove is burning nicely with seasoned ash

 

[Robson Valley]

I run a Harman PP38+ wood pellet stove. Welded sheet steel. Essentially smokeless and better BTU that round wood. But that might make round wood more economical.
One motor drives the pellet feed. #2 motor pulls air up through the fire for exhaust. #3 motor pushes air through the heat exchanger. Single printed circuit controller.
Besides the general overall warmth in the house in winter (we have some -30C nights and days.), I like the warm floors. Barefoot and not cold.
Dust? Mountain rock dust rains on us non-stop. Go to drive away? Run the wipers a few strokes to brush some off.

I want to try top find Andy's Saltfire stove on line and have a peek.

 

[Everything Mac]

the damned cat managed to get lost under the floor both days too.

Sorry Mary but I laughed out loud at that one!

We've actually got a little trap door in our living room next to the fireplace, it had a lead pipe runninng outside with a valve, I assume it was at some point hooked up to the back boiler that was in the fireplace but I've chopped all that out now. I'm determined to make some use of the little trap door though. I have no idea what for but I've always wanted a little trap door.


I've not sorted any cast iron pots yet no. We'll probably get something at some point but I've a mile long list of priorities at the minute and as you can imagine pots are somewhere near the bottom.

Most modern wood burners are constructed from sheet steel. Has many benefits, mainly it does not crack.
I did crack one cast Iron woodburner in the past.
I also cracked a antique Swedish woodburner, but that is another story!
Copper tubing is good. I never has S/s.
Plastic is crap. That is the standard on this island. US low standard. In 9 years since we built the house, we have had three leaks. Small ones, touch wood!
I like the Norwegian Jotul stoves. Plus vintage ones, but they are difficult to find in good condition these days.

Indeed, I'm happier with a steel stove. For all the benefits of cast iron dispersing heat etc the blacksmith in me can't help but thing of it as a weaker material. I know where I stand with steel and can weld it should I ever need to, however unlikely.

No leaks so far but I'd be distinctly unimpressed if there was. The new speed fit fittings really are quite impressive, if ever we do have an issue they'll be a doddle to fix.

Andy

 

[Toddy]

You should have the pink stuff analyzed. Sounds weird, it should not happen!
Legionella can indeed grow in water tanks and such, but if the setting is set so the hot water is hot, it can not grow there.
Above 70 degrees Celsius - Legionella and most other bacteria in the water dies.

You can drink Legionella infested water though, it is only dangerous if you inhale water particles.

The pink stuff is commonplace. It's known. It just needs to be regularly cleaned off, but I don't want to be drinking it. It's an airborne bacteria that thrives in warm damp places with residues of soap, etc.,

We live in a damp temperate climate. A steamed up bathroom (that's a Bathroom, not a loo) doesn't dry or air out quickly enough all year long to inhibit mould growth. So we clean, and we keep potable water seperate from warm stuff when possible. Even the inside of the nozzles of taps need scrubbed, both hot and cold. There's a black mould (it's a biofilm) that grows happily there and needs scrubbed out with a bleach solution and a kept for the job wee brush.

I don't want my hot water so hot that I need to worry about scalding anyone. Over 44˚C can scald, so we don't run it high enough to kill legionnaire's.
That's why mixed water taps are a problem. You mix in hot with cold and in that now 'warm' the bugs can thrive. Keep it seperate and there is much less issue to be concerned about.

 

[Everything Mac]

I run a Harman PP38+ wood pellet stove. Welded sheet steel. Essentially smokeless and better BTU that round wood. But that might make round wood more economical.
One motor drives the pellet feed. #2 motor pulls air up through the fire for exhaust. #3 motor pushes air through the heat exchanger. Single printed circuit controller.
Besides the general overall warmth in the house in winter (we have some -30C nights and days.), I like the warm floors. Barefoot and not cold.
Dust? Mountain rock dust rains on us non-stop. Go to drive away? Run the wipers a few strokes to brush some off.

I want to try top find Andy's Saltfire stove on line and have a peek.

Saltfire.co.uk is them - good reviews in general. Not the best out there by any means but very good for the price.

All the best
Andy

 

[Toddy]

Sorry Mary but I laughed out loud at that one!

We've actually got a little trap door in our living room next to the fireplace, it had a lead pipe runninng outside with a valve, I assume it was at some point hooked up to the back boiler that was in the fireplace but I've chopped all that out now. I'm determined to make some use of the little trap door though. I have no idea what for but I've always wanted a little trap door.


I've not sorted any cast iron pots yet no. We'll probably get something at some point but I've a mile long list of priorities at the minute and as you can imagine pots are somewhere near the bottom.




Indeed, I'm happier with a steel stove. For all the benefits of cast iron dispersing heat etc the blacksmith in me can't help but thing of it as a weaker material. I know where I stand with steel and can weld it should I ever need to, however unlikely.

No leaks so far but I'd be distinctly unimpressed if there was. The new speed fit fittings really are quite impressive, if ever we do have an issue they'll be a doddle to fix.

Andy

Now I can laugh, I wasn't laughing then. I told the men the cat was out and about and would likely wander home mid morning, but did they listen ?? sure enough in it comes and spies the lifted floorboards and down it went. The crawl space under the house is hardcore surfaced and only about two feet deep. Not something you want to be crawling over trying to catch the blasted moggie.
My Dad built a trap door in the cupboard in the kitchen under the stairs. It was four foot square, and it was used as a very tidy safe space to hide stuff. The hoover sat on top of it with the coal bucket beside it. Only we knew it was there.

Don't buy cast iron until I've seen you ? I have a set of pots that could happily go to a new home. I used to use them camping but I don't now. I'll keep the hanging frying pan (though if Russ doesn't want it you can have the bigger one that I kept for the meat eaters) and the girdle, but the rest are in need of tIc I suspect, they were put away clean and sound and they all have their lids too.

Those speed fittings are the bees knees. What a difference it made using those compared to the first time we re-did the kitchen.

M

 

[Janne]

The Seafire you bought seems to be excellent!
I always go one size bigger with everything in life. Better that than one size to small!

Our last house was cold as hell, not much we could do about it.Grade 2+ I think it was. Sussex 3 bay hallhouse from the 1480's, extended several times.
I totally restored. Great fun. Think Archeology!
We had the largest woodburner you can think of in the library, then opened all doors between the library and our bedroom upstairs, and closed all other doors to the other rooms.
The heat from the library went up into our bedroom nicely, and we could (just) sleep decently well.

We are used to 23 C in our houses.
I was happy as Larry when we managed to sell it just before we moved to this Island.

 

[Dogoak]

Go for it Andy, you've got the talent and the brains
I've fitted a few over the years, 2 in our current place up here, before the regs. and one for a friend since. As long as the fitting complies to regs. that's the main thing.

 

[Robson Valley]

Thanks Andy. Found your unit on line. Looks pretty nice. I'll guess that you buy a fan within a year!
Any little plug in ratty table fan will push the air around as much as you need.
Hope you're not OCD, that's a big glass door to keep clean. Mine is always half crapped up.

An advantage being in the downstairs kitchen, I don't need to look at it.
I dropped $3,000.00 before I lit the first match, 10 years ago. Probably $4,500.00 today.
But, it's saved me at least $15,000.00 in heating costs.

 

[Toddy]

We are used to 23 C in our houses.....

We keep ours at around 20˚C in Winter, but anything above 17 is comfortable. It's nearly 10pm, and I'm sitting here in a short sleeved blouse and the temperature is 18.4.

23˚C is Summer

M