I didn't say I'd want to do it, just that it was a possibility. Vennison would be better food by far.
Hypothetical question - Living off the land
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I don't suppose any of us would want such a thing to happen, but I find it hard at times when I look at how things have changed in the world since the industrial revolution, not to imagine that the world/environment is changing for the worse.
I'm not a doom-monger but profession, but we are 'ucking up the planet and, I fear, will have to pay for this at some point. We are all learning the skills of our forebears, who were far gentler on it than we have been; and this will strenghten our chances of surviving if we do find ourselves back in the stone age.
Bushcraft, for me, makes me more aware of the world around me: makes me try to live at it's pace and in harmony with it. I am just a tiny part of it.
I'm off to build a fire from my soap box!
peace
I'm not a doom-monger but profession, but we are 'ucking up the planet and, I fear, will have to pay for this at some point. We are all learning the skills of our forebears, who were far gentler on it than we have been; and this will strenghten our chances of surviving if we do find ourselves back in the stone age.
Bushcraft, for me, makes me more aware of the world around me: makes me try to live at it's pace and in harmony with it. I am just a tiny part of it.
I'm off to build a fire from my soap box!
peace
What RA said about having a "kit" and the knowledge, practicle experience and will to use it, is really the way to be. :super: I have come across people the were in the bush and mentally stalled for whatever reason just short of the road in complete disarray and having given up and waiting for someone to lead them out :roll: sometimes it doesn't happen. Go out and practise all types of scenarios if you can, train with a partner, friend, mate if I were in Britain were no hunting was allowed I would go to a butcher and learn to cut and dress meat and such, better, an abbattoir and learn to field dress and skin it first, dog makes a fine meal 
): . I cannot emphazise enough, assemble a workable "kit" and have it as ready as possible, as accessable as possible.
Follow the boy Scout's motto "be Prepared"
Luck favors the prepared
Never ever give in to the "S..B." Resist!!!!
AND REALLY HAVE A GOOD TIME WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT!!!! :rolmao: :super: :You_Rock_ :chill: ack: :wave:
just a thought and good wishes
): . I cannot emphazise enough, assemble a workable "kit" and have it as ready as possible, as accessable as possible. Follow the boy Scout's motto "be Prepared"
Luck favors the prepared
Never ever give in to the "S..B." Resist!!!!
AND REALLY HAVE A GOOD TIME WHILE YOU ARE DOING IT!!!! :rolmao:
:super: :You_Rock_ :chill: ack: :wave: just a thought and good wishes
An archaeologist friend of mine once told me that the population of the UK during the later mesolithic (i.e. pre farming) period probably only amounted to about 500 people. I believe that was about 10.000 years ago. I am unsure if this was the maximum number of people who could live on a purely hunter gatherer basis, or perhaps because of the cold weather during the ice age they didn't do a lot of mating back then. Anyway, as soon as we started growing things the population started to rise steadily.
:rolmao:
:rolmao:
Ginja said:
That's true, at least for the "roughing it" types of survival schools (mine is not like that unless that's what you positively ask for).
Another important point is that every time you PRACTICE the skills, you actually buy yourself an additional chance to be able to do it again in a stressful situation. Each time you build a lean-to, for example, you make that skill more and more a part of you. And when the ****, it's that "you" that will come out. No time for thinking or figuring things out when the situation really is stressful. When the adrenalin pumps out, you lose about half of your IQ points. That's reality. And that means that you won't be able to innovate much during those periods.
IMHO, that's the main purpose of a survival school. To practice the stuff in a safe environment so you can ingrain those skills in your nervous system, test the skills, have some feedback, tips and hints, and make them somewhat automatic.
I do believe that everyone should be allowed to get a basic survival course at least once in their lives, but the best thing would be making it like karate courses or whatever: we meet 3 times a week (whatever the weather) and we practice for an hour an a half. This way you can cheaply and safely put a lot of dirt time under your belt in a year or two, and you really can develop a set of skills you can bet your life on. That's why I'm starting to develop this "club" approach more and more... and people really get better at it by doing it regularly.
Just my humble opinion...
David
"Club" forming and practise as Moine said is a great idea it serves to develop community with like minded people and expand knowledge base for a more varied experience and you don't have to explain why you are interested in bushcrafting to a curious doubtful person. You can never have to many friends, when in need is when when they (friends) shine the most.
just a thought
just a thought
Paganwolf
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Carcajou,Carcajou Garou said:
It's true that we often tend to forget the value of being a part of a group. The world is full of competition, and we always fight each other. Being in a cooperative group, where people help each other and stand together is a wisdom that the colonialist whites have tried to rip away from us. They tried to raise us against one another, and unfortunately in some cases they managed to do it... but I'm glad to see that they have not completely succeeded.
Thanks for the reminder, brother.
David
Carcajou Garou and David, wise words from both of you. Cooperative efforts are what will be required from all peoples. I just pray that human kind can find the humaneness within themselves, to do what is right and pull it off.
Kwe RovingArcher,RovingArcher said:
What you highlight is true, brother. We will indeed need to make that cooperative effort, both among our people, among every people, and with the earth. Right now, the two legged people is acting like a parasite, taking selfish advantage of our mother's generosity. Just like babies do. And just like every mother with a newborn, the earth is getting tired... It's time to grow up and follow the examples of our older brothers and sisters, the animals. It's time to grow up and give back a little of ourselves to our mother... before it's too late.
Apart from praying for that -- which I do every chance I get -- I try and act towards that ideal whenever my spirit is clear enough to do so... which is not always the case, unfortunately.
I think it all has to (re)start somewhere, and that if the ones who are aware of that problem/solution don't make the first step, nobody will. That means we have to give the earth and people a chance... no matter how hard and disappointing it can turn out to be.
Anyways... I'm drifting off-topic here. Sorry.
Cheers,
David
I think even over here it would be bloody difficult for long. the game pop.s are not remotely what they were 100 years ago and they werenot what they were 100 years before that. on a short term say 90 days or so, in my area, tough but do-able. in canada you might be able for longer periods. keep in mind that even in 1700's lots of natives starved to death and most were far better bushcrafters than any of us, after all they did it every day, 365.
Now I'll add a small tidbit. Seems that the Humbolt squid, which grows rapidly to about 20# in one year, are washing up on shore, dead, along the entire west coast from Alaska into Mexico. Scientists can't seem to figure it out, but say they will continue to wash up on shore for as long as a month. How they figured that out without knowing what's killing them is beyond me. :?: 
Editing to add, they just reported that it may be caused by a change in the waters temperature. Seems it is warming up some.
Editing to add, they just reported that it may be caused by a change in the waters temperature. Seems it is warming up some.
:shock: Sometimes this small island feels very claustrophobic ! - Nowhere to run.
Apparently we are reliant on a Gulf stream for our mild Climate, and with global warming the currents in the oceans are going to change, as the northern ocean cools with the ice melt. This means that this Gulf stream will no longer exist, and we get a climate more like iceland. :roll:
Apparently if we cannot stop this trend within the next 20 years, then it will become irreversible.
Rich
Apparently we are reliant on a Gulf stream for our mild Climate, and with global warming the currents in the oceans are going to change, as the northern ocean cools with the ice melt. This means that this Gulf stream will no longer exist, and we get a climate more like iceland. :roll:
Apparently if we cannot stop this trend within the next 20 years, then it will become irreversible.
Rich
Reading these threads I thought I might help with a few tasty bits of info.
In 1086 population was 1.3-1.5 million with over 90% living off the land. At the beginning of 1600 over 90% still lived off the land with a population estimated to 3-5 million, in 1900 less than 20% lived off the land, total population 38 million, during the second world war (1941), the UK did not manage to feed itself, (this was the only set of statistics I could find where imports were seriously curtailed, under performing farms were confiscated by the government, back gardens became allotments), only with the help of imports did it do this, population of 48 million. By the last count, the current UK population exceeds 60 million.
Personally I do not think you would have a hope in hell. There is a saying that seems rather appropriate here: Any civilisation is only three meals away from anarchy.
sources: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf, and folio society history of England series.
In 1086 population was 1.3-1.5 million with over 90% living off the land. At the beginning of 1600 over 90% still lived off the land with a population estimated to 3-5 million, in 1900 less than 20% lived off the land, total population 38 million, during the second world war (1941), the UK did not manage to feed itself, (this was the only set of statistics I could find where imports were seriously curtailed, under performing farms were confiscated by the government, back gardens became allotments), only with the help of imports did it do this, population of 48 million. By the last count, the current UK population exceeds 60 million.
Personally I do not think you would have a hope in hell. There is a saying that seems rather appropriate here: Any civilisation is only three meals away from anarchy.
sources: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf, and folio society history of England series.
You don't live off the land unless you live on a boat or up a tree!!!
It's realy a case of how directly people live with the land? where does their food, fuel, shelter and clothing come from and how do they get it.
Apart from fish and seaweed the majority of peoples' food comes from the land, the fuel they use, whether it's wood for an open fire or coal, or electricity generated in a nuclear power station comes from the land. Bricks and concrete are made from the land and whether natural or synthetic their clothes are from the land as well.
So I suppose it's whether they pay a load of middle men or not and how local the source of the resources they use are? This thread reminds me of an essay I did at university about whether it was sustainable for people to live in the amazon rainforest. I said that as people had lived there for thousands of years it was but it depended how they lived and how many of them there were.
It's realy a case of how directly people live with the land? where does their food, fuel, shelter and clothing come from and how do they get it.
Apart from fish and seaweed the majority of peoples' food comes from the land, the fuel they use, whether it's wood for an open fire or coal, or electricity generated in a nuclear power station comes from the land. Bricks and concrete are made from the land and whether natural or synthetic their clothes are from the land as well.
So I suppose it's whether they pay a load of middle men or not and how local the source of the resources they use are? This thread reminds me of an essay I did at university about whether it was sustainable for people to live in the amazon rainforest. I said that as people had lived there for thousands of years it was but it depended how they lived and how many of them there were.
Did you guys know that Britain imports around 50% of it's food? It's not difficult to believe when you look a the labels in supermarkets, with things like Kenyan green beans, as well as the usual tropical fruit. Even if people planted over playing fields and verges like in WW2, we might still have trouble feeding ourselves even with modern methods. You can't really extrapolate from neolithic population levels, because Britain hadn't been fully settled by then. If you want a good idea of how bad a situation we'd be in if we had to rely on our knives with fishing line in the handle (joke!) for survival, just think about how crowded national parks get in the summer just with tourists and how hobbyist fishermen take up all of the best fishing rivers and probably don't catch a lot. The human population would reach an equilibrium with food supplies, but it wouldn't be pretty, there wouldn't be many of us left, and most edible animals would be extinct. The thought of everyone in my city (Hull) of 300,000 descending on one little river and a few fields looking for food is too grim for words, and anyone wanting to survive it would do well to get a yacht and a seal harpoon and head north!
Le Loup
Settler
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