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[crazydave]

oh well I guess I should say hello seeing as how I have 50 posts allready

I've followed this site since its first outings but I'll admit to getting a little fed up with the rm this and rm that - not that I dislike the guy I was keener than most to see him suceed but there were guys before him keeping the faith. Now the knowledge has improved the site has as well and was worth the wait so thanks guys.

I've been a 'survivalist' since I was around 13 doing my first course at 15 add some army and scout leader time and now I'm 37 I guess I've done a fair bit but not as much as I'd like to. I've done army instructing as well as scout so I have a loft full of basha's poncho's and kits of various types. I'm pretty kitwise so will help with questions and sourcing when I can

I've opened this discussion elsewhere but i guess my contributions will be more survivally but it still counts as we've agreed that its 'extreme bushcraft' so I can help sort those out for when the fluffy bit goes all pete tong.

I've quit the scouts in disgust at the extreme political correctness but remain an instructor as she still runs a troop of lil horrors along with bosun who's tucked away on this site somewhere.

I have a terrible sense of humour so once I've met and know you beware

Hope to meet out someday soon as it'll be good to learn the fluffy side of life

tea and buns

Dave C

 

[beowolf762]

Howdy and welcome
I have allways thought some people take a very P.C. view on survival.They think a survivalist is some antisocial kook who is waiting for a nuclear holocaust. My view on survival is being prepared for emergencies and natural disasters. Someone wrote that the Hurricane Katrina disaster was a failure of citizenship. I could not agree more. The sheeple who expect the government to take care of all their needs could not function on their own. CITIZENS have to take responsibility for there own safety.
I'll get off my soapbox now

 

[Toddy]

Firstly, welcome to BcUK.

You are not the only Survivalist on the forum, and your input is welcomed, as is anyone else's. However, Bushcraft is an ever expanding set of skills that allow one to enjoy and thrive in the natural environment while actively participating in it. That those skills are transposable is not really disputed.

The vast majority of the members on this site find the occasional survival thread interesting but it's not the be all and end all for us.
Should the circcumstances ever arise where our lives are under threat, then I'm sure most here would do very well; however, the reality of our lives is the myriad different environments of the UK. Thus, gentlemen, this is a Bushcraft site, not a Survival one.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[leon-1]

Good to have you here Dave, I was a survivalist once, then my skill sets became greater and my knowledge deeper. Then I became a bushcrafter.

 

[ArkAngel]

Hiya Dave and welcome to the forum

I know what you mean about PC, i used to help out at a local Boys Brigade teaching them various outdoor skills (and giving them a good laugh at my failures) but the PC do-gooders drove me away.

It is good that you come here from a different direction, it will be good to pick your brains on some of the more 'extreme' solutions to outdoor living.

I look forward to talking to you in the forums

Martin

 

[morch]

Hi Dave n welcome aboard

 

[Ed]

Welcome aboard.... good to have you here


Ed

 

[leon-b]

welcome to bcuk its good to have you here
leon

 

[crazydave]

well thanks for the welcome - I might have upset one or two but it wasn't deliberate and taken out of the context it was intended probably due to intellectual constipation on my part.

 

[Raptor]

Good to have you here Dave, I was a survivalist once, then my skill sets became greater and my knowledge deeper. Then I became a bushcrafter.

Welcome Crazy Dave,

I completely agree with Leon-1, I was really into the whole survivalist thing in my younger days. The knowledge and skill developed by learning and experiencing bushcraft is, IMHO, much more valuable and enabling even from a survivalist point of view. Many of the skills are the same, its just the approach and the lighter load in your rucksack that is different.

Anyway, welcome Dave, I hope we dont get too hung up on titles or labels, and we dont get too PC.

Cheers,

Frank

 

[Fire Starter]

Good to have you here Dave, I was a survivalist once, then my skill sets became greater and my knowledge deeper. Then I became a bushcrafter.

I completely agree with Leon-1, I was really into the whole survivalist thing in my younger days. The knowledge and skill developed by learning and experiencing bushcraft is, IMHO, much more valuable and enabling even from a survivalist point of view. Many of the skills are the same, its just the approach and the lighter load in your rucksack that is different.

Anyway, welcome Dave, I hope we dont get too hung up on titles or labels, and we dont get too PC.

These are the sort of posts that make me ask questions about this forum. I came on here to learn more about bushcraft but find most posts are about kit. Or should I say tools of the trade rather than the trade.
Is it Bushcraft or BushKit? is it Bushcraft or BushCamping?
I see One upmanship over survivalists. "its just the approach and the lighter load in your rucksack that is different" when all you want to talk about is kit. 80 % of the posts are about kit and more kit. Do you mean "Bushcrafters" carry more kit but carry less weight?

You have labels for things - Bushcrafting now appears to be a higher form of survialist. interesting!
I even read a post the other day asking if Fly fishing was considered as some form of bushcraft? Well in my opinion, if you make all of the kit from naturals resources then yes. If you take a carbon fibre rod with you, then NO! but I am accused of being an elitist? Yet here we have bushcrafters talking down to surivalists.

You are a strange lot

 

[weaver]

I came on here to learn more about bushcraft but find most posts are about kit.

You have labels for things - Bushcrafting now appears to be a higher form of survivalist. interesting!

You are a strange lot

If you came here to learn about Bushcraft then why don't you ever ask any questions about how to do Bushcraft instead of always trying to pigeonhole the people and redefine the craft?

I have seen a lot of great posts about how to do things, but then I am trying to learn.

Ask what you want to know and I bet you will get great answers. No, I'm sure you will get great answers!

 

[leon-1]

Hi Firestarter, if you don't mind I'll address this myself.


I have travelled a bit, pretty much around the world, yes I was a survivalist. My definition was this "To sustain life untill effective recovery could be obtained".

Survival by its very definition is to sustain life, but that is it. I would like to know more, not just how to sustain life, but how to live and bsuhcraft is the best definition that I can find for this as yet. It involves many more skills at many different levels.

I cannot claim to be a bushcraft "guru", I am not and never have been, but survival wise I know what will keep me alive, nothing more. I am learning the finer points and to me that means a lot more than just living on the edge of existence.

I hope this does not offend you,

leon-1

 

[Fire Starter]

Hi Firestarter, if you don't mind I'll address this myself.


I have travelled a bit, pretty much around the world, yes I was a survivalist. My definition was this "To sustain life untill effective recovery could be obtained".

Survival by its very definition is to sustain life, but that is it. I would like to know more, not just how to sustain life, but how to live and bsuhcraft is the best definition that I can find for this as yet. It involves many more skills at many different levels.

I cannot claim to be a bushcraft "guru", I am not and never have been, but survival wise I know what will keep me alive, nothing more. I am learning the finer points and to me that means a lot more than just living on the edge of existence.

I hope this does not offend you,

leon-1

Thanks for the response Leon - No offence taken.
I have asked two simple questions on here over the last week and I have been accused of trying to redefine Bushcraft, being an Elitist, and trying to pigeonhole everything and put labels on things. I have been accused of having a problem with kit

With respect I have not labelled anything, I have not claimed to be a bushcraft guru, I have not pigeonholed anything other than to call fishing fishing and camping camping.

The labels are being applied by the membership and here you are defining the difference between survivalist and bushcraft.

No offence meant, just trying understand

 

[Martyn]

I've opened this discussion elsewhere but i guess my contributions will be more survivally but it still counts as we've agreed that its 'extreme bushcraft'

Firstly, welcome to the forums Dave (or welcome back)...

However, I'm afrain I dont agree with you. Survivalism is extreme, certainly, bushcraft, not for me it isnt and we certainly havent all agreed on it.

Frankly, I think there are far too many survivalist type threads creeping onto this forum and I dont understand why. It's off topic and it's not what this forum is for. Many bushcrafter drive cars, but that doesnt mean we should open a mechanics forum. There are planety of genuine survivalist forums out there, so why bring it here? There is an overlap of a skill set, but there is a gulf between the mind set.

With regards to being diplomatic/PC or whatever you want to call it ...- hows this...

I actually do think survivalists are nutters ...or at least borderline sociopaths ...and frankly, I wish they'd all bugger off and build their bunkers somewhere else ...or at least leave their end of the world fantasies at home with their prozac!

I know that's offended lots of people and I really dont care. Not very PC of me is it?

I'll probably get moderated for saying that, but I'm fed up of dancing round the issue for the sake of sparing the blushes. THIS IS NOT A SURVIVALISTS FORUM!!!!

 

[leon-1]

The labels are being applied by the membership and here you are defining the difference between survivalist and bushcraft.

No offence meant, just trying understand

Unfortunately that is what people do, it is a means to an end and to understanding. People will always try and label an item, object or activity, it's in our nature and aids us in describing an item object or activity to our friends and neighbours.

I have a military background, I know what survival is in the military mindset. I understand a lot of the situations that civilians have found themselves in as far as survival is concerned and know there is a large difference between military and civilian survival situations.

These are extremes in my opinion, however an indigenous person living in an area that we could merely exist or prolong our lives in is not a survivalist as they are living there on a day to day basis. Many of these people we have labelled as "Bushmen" and as a result we tend to call what they do Bushcraft, this is a label as is anything else.

It matters little what you call bushcraft, wilderness living skills or whatever, however it is not Survival in the strictest sense as the skills are not just about prolononging life, but about living at the point when prolonging life is no longer a problem.

This is my opinion only, people are entitled to thier own opinions and my definition will not neccesarily be the same as someone elses. I do not attempt to pigeon hole anyone or anything in any other persons mindset, but the above is how I see things. If others agree with me then fine, if not then fine, we are all entitled to our own views.

Some people will naturally agree with you, others will agree with me, that's the way of the world

Out of curiosity why open a thread which is 2 months old??

Why try and make any distinction between Survivalist and Bushcrafters??

The base skill sets are very much the same aren't they?

Peoples perspectives are different, let it go at that. If we all agreed it would be a boring place.

 

[dommyracer]

Hiya Dave, welcome.

Isn't there a forum section that is called 'Bushcraft and Survival skills'?

 

[Fire Starter]

Firstly, welcome to the forums Dave (or welcome back)...

However, I'm afrain I dont agree with you. Survivalism is extreme, certainly, bushcraft, not for me it isnt and we certainly havent all agreed on it.

Frankly, I think there are far too many survivalist type threads creeping onto this forum and I dont understand why. It's off topic and it's not what this forum is for. Many bushcrafter drive cars, but that doesnt mean we should open a mechanics forum. There are planety of genuine survivalist forums out there, so why bring it here? There is an overlap of a skill set, but there is a gulf between the mind set.

With regards to being diplomatic/PC or whatever you want to call it ...- hows this...

I actually do think survivalists are nutters ...or at least borderline sociopaths ...and frankly, I wish they'd all bugger off and build their bunkers somewhere else ...or at least leave their end of the world fantasies at home with their prozac!

I know that's offended lots of people and I really dont care. Not very PC of me is it?

I'll probably get moderated for saying that, but I'm fed up of dancing round the issue for the sake of sparing the blushes. THIS IS NOT A SURVIVALISTS FORUM!!!!

More pigeon holes " Survivalists are Nutters or at least borderline sociopaths" not Bushcrafters then? who makes the distinctions?
- Dear oh dear! and this is coming from a Moderator, what makes it worse is he knows he done it and does not care :yikes:
Who moderates the mods then?

 

[Fire Starter]

Unfortunately that is what people do, it is a means to an end and to understanding. People will always try and label an item, object or activity, it's in our nature and aids us in describing an item object or activity to our friends and neighbours.

I have a military background, I know what survival is in the military mindset. I understand a lot of the situations that civilians have found themselves in as far as survival is concerned and know there is a large difference between military and civilian survival situations.

These are extremes in my opinion, however an indigenous person living in an area that we could merely exist or prolong our lives in is not a survivalist as they are living there on a day to day basis. Many of these people we have labelled as "Bushmen" and as a result we tend to call what they do Bushcraft, this is a label as is anything else.

It matters little what you call bushcraft, wilderness living skills or whatever, however it is not Survival in the strictest sense as the skills are not just about prolononging life, but about living at the point when prolonging life is no longer a problem.

This is my opinion only, people are entitled to thier own opinions and my definition will not neccesarily be the same as someone elses. I do not attempt to pigeon hole anyone or anything in any other persons mindset, but the above is how I see things. If others agree with me then fine, if not then fine, we are all entitled to our own views.

Some people will naturally agree with you, others will agree with me, that's the way of the world

Out of curiosity why open a thread which is 2 months old??

Why try and make any distinction between Survivalist and Bushcrafters??

The base skill sets are very much the same aren't they?

Peoples perspectives are different, let it go at that. If we all agreed it would be a boring place.

Thanks again Leon

I can see people including moderators are getting a little riled here because you clearly want to protect the name of "bushcrafters". So I will let it drop, I have stated my opinion in other posts.

Just to answer your questions -:

Out of curiosity why open a thread which is 2 months old??
Because I felt it illustrated my point perfectly as per quotes.

Why try and make any distinction between Survivalist and Bushcrafters??
I haven't - You did that most eloquently above and Martin has also made his true feelings know.

The base skill sets are very much the same aren't they?
Yes I agree.

Thanks

 

[Martyn]

More pigeon holes " Survivalists are Nutters or at least borderline sociopaths" not Bushcrafters then? who makes the distinctions?
- Dear oh dear! and this is coming from a Moderator, what makes it worse is he knows he done it and does not care :yikes:
Who moderates the mods then?

The police?

Give em a call ....tell em a moderator has been seen holding an opinion in public.